238 Lora K. Joy (Part 2)
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/238
Haley Radke: This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adoptees on the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption. I'm Haley Radke. Lora K. Joy returns to the podcast today to share about the process of legally changing her name and being adopted back by her biological mother. We talk about all the healing work and therapy she's persisted in to find acceptance of herself and about how it feels to own the truth around her story.
Lora is the author of three illustrated books about hypervigilance, self attunement, and genetic mirroring. Though of course, we touch on those topics too. Before we get started, I wanted to personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today over on adoptee AdopteesOn.com/community. Which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website, adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome back to adoptees on Lora K. Joy!. Hi Lora.
Lora K. Joy: Hi Haley.
Haley Radke: Oh, it's so good to talk with you again. You shared your story. Really some really hard stuff with us about estranging from your adoptive parents the last time you were on. That's episode 185. If you wanna go listen to that before you we're gonna do like a part two and talk about some of the other aspects of your story about Reunion and some really exciting choices you've made in adulthood in reclaiming your identity and power back.
So, yeah, do you wanna start there? Let's share a little more of your story.
Lora K. Joy: Okay, well it, just a quick recap. My maternal side, I was, been in reunion for over 15 years now, and during the time of my estrangement and that episode I was also doing DNA and searching for my paternal side. So those things were happening simultaneously.
I had always known my father's name because my mother told me and it was in my paperwork, but when I Googled him, I didn't know, which one he was. And so I decided I needed to d do DNA and be sure who he was. So I did DNA 23 and me and Ancestry and hired, not hired, but found a Search Angel and she very quickly found him.
And when she found him, we realized that he had lied to my mom and told her that he was born in 1940, but he was really born in 1931. So it was part of the reason I couldn't find him when I was searching myself because his birthdate was wrong. His year. So we found him, and I knew also from the paperwork that I had two siblings; brother and a sister.
And that was really my goal. I had two goals in finding him, and that was: one, I wanted to hold him accountable because he walked away from my mom when she told him and I wanted to find my siblings. I didn't, I, I expected that they did not know about me, but I wanted to let them have the opportunity to know that I existed and see if they were interested in a relationship.
So the search Angel found him, she found his niece, my first cousin, and it was because I had a high first cousin once removed match, and it was her son. So when she built out the tree, that's how she kinda triangulated everything. I did reach out to that cousin on Facebook, but it was, we weren't friends and it was the secret message that she didn't see and I didn't expect her to, to see that and respond.
And ultimately I wanted to talk to him first anyway, because I wanted to try. I wanted to say that I had tried to, to reach out to him. So I sent him a packet. I sent him a letter, pictures of my kids, how I had found him also, there was a certified letter in my file that he had reject, like not signed for, had been returned from my adoption in 1978, '79, and I made copies of these things with his name and address and things like that, and made a packet to like, here's my proof.
You're, I know you're the man. And I sent that FedEx tracking but not certified again cuz I knew he wouldn't sign for it and didn't hear anything, of course. And then called him, got a voicemail, wasn't prepared to leave a voicemail message, sat with that, called again and got him on the phone and....
Ultimately I talked to him for seven minutes and the whole time he tried to convince me he wasn't the right person. Oh, I only have my two kids. I only have.... I left Indiana in nine in the, in 1980. I'm like, yeah, I was born in 1979. You know, he even tried to tell me he had a vasectomy and that, you know, he wasn't the right person.
And I'm like, so everything he's telling me is just reinforcing what I already know. And ultimately at the end he said, you're just bringing up the past and I have to get off of here. And like hung up on me. And I'm like, okay. At the end he gives himself away. So yeah, that was my experience with my dad. So secondary rejection, but I kind of expected that.
Haley Radke: Do you think he actually has lied to himself and ....
Lora K. Joy: Yes.
Haley Radke: And like actually believes, like, no, that wasn't really like , like
Lora K. Joy: Yes, I do, I do because I started off by saying like, I took a DNA test and I matched and with, you know, your niece's son and, 'well, I didn't take a DNA test'. Like he was like so con, he didn't understand.
I do believe after meeting my cousins and siblings, knowing the type of person that he is, that he has just convinced himself that it wasn't the truth or he believed his own lies or. . Like he was just trying to play it off.
Haley Radke: Well, and I think folks from that era, like they really haven't, well not all, but of course they haven't kept up with the technology so they literally don't know.
Lora K. Joy: Sure.
Haley Radke: How these secrets are ag, they're gonna come out, whether or not you like it. So, oh my gosh. Seven minutes. I'm sorry.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. . So he, you know, and my search angel had found my cousin and him, and other members of the tree, but she could not find my siblings. And it was super strange because they're so good.
Search angels are so amazing at what they can find. And it was perplexing to me why we couldn't find my two siblings. And I knew where they were born. I knew the area, like once we knew where he had lived and stuff it, it was just perplexing. And, and remember I thought I was looking for a man who was almost 80 and he was almost 90.
So that was another thing that kind of pushed me forward in the search. In fact, my son, who's, who was 15 at the time said, I think you need to reach out to him before he dies. And I'm like, you're right. I do like, I need to get on this. So I let that sit, you know, for about a month after that conversation and decided I would write a letter to my first cousin. And I sent the, I sent the letter.
It ended up being postmarked on the birthday of her son that I had matched to. So like all these universal signs. A couple weeks went by and she didn't respond. And I thought, okay, that's it. I'm not gonna hear back and, if I don't hear from her, I am going to just have to watch the obituary. That was my plan B, to find my siblings and their names.
So couple weeks went by and I, the phone rings and I can tell who it is by the name of the city and the town, and I'm hopeful that it's gonna be a good conversation. And I, I answer the phone and it's her and her brother. And her brother happened to be on a road trip, and his RV, just retired, and was visiting her when she got the letter.
So they called me together and they were not surprised because of the character of my biological dad. And they said that basically he had made a lot of bad life choices. He was not in my siblings lives for over 20 years after they, he and their mom divorced. So I was born when they were 17 and 12, and he had essentially walked away from them.
They, they had moved to Texas, so they moved from Indiana to Texas after the divorce. And from that point on, the cousins really lost contact. And, and our, our dad was not in their lives either. And they said, so you've kind of got some things in common and don't take it personally. He's kind of a jerk to everybody.
Haley Radke: Oh my gosh. .
Lora K. Joy: So they were wonderful and sent me photos right away. Spent hours, you know, on the phone, video calls. And because they, they had lost touch with my siblings as well, they were facebook friends, but they hadn't really seen each other in almost 40, 50 years. Like my sister was four and she's now mid fifties.
So they were essentially not in relationship either. And they said, we will, we wanna talk to your, your brother and we'll tell him about you if that's okay. And I said, oh, yes, that's, that would be wonderful. So it took some time because again, they hadn't had this established relationship and they were, you know, trying to do it in the, a delicate, the most delicate way, you know, that they could.
And so it took a bit. But that was fine. I kept in contact with them, kept sharing photos and calls and things like that. And so then they talked to my brother and within the week he emailed me and said, and the subject line was: wow, hi sister. And we did a, a three hour zoom call the next day with my sister and him.
And it was, it's been really, really wonderful since then. It's been a couple years of reunion, two years now almost. Exactly. And when I met my mom, I resembled her and I resembled that side of the family, but I look like my brother and my sister. So the mirroring happened really, really fast, and it's sort of an instant connection in that way.
So things, things were healed almost immediately with, with just seeing them and, and then, and then hearing their story and their experience with our dad. And so that's been, that's been really wonderful. And, and part of that, that was unexpected, but shouldn't have been surprising to me, was the effect it had on my kids because they, they, they look like my husband's side of the family, but they just look like they're related right to that side of the family.
But my daughter looks like my sister. And in some photos my sister and I look like from our same ages, like if pictures taken of us at the same age, like we could be twins. It's crazy. To see my kids' faces light up just over a zoom screen of seeing them. It was it, that was pretty amazing. And, and healing for, for me and them.
Haley Radke: Because your children were teenagers when they first would've connected then, right? Yeah.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. Right. They're, yep. Teenagers with meeting my paternal siblings. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Wow.
Lora K. Joy: They were babies when I, when my mom came into the picture, but, mm. and so they've been on this journey with me as well, and they've been some of my biggest supporters. So it's been, it's been really wonderful to watch the healing that happens for them too.
Haley Radke: That's amazing. So did they, did your kids know you were doing DNA testing and searching for a paternal side as you were going along? Like how, how did you have those conversations with them?
Lora K. Joy: They did know and they were excited and you know, they've always known my mom, they've always had their grandma in their life.
But I think I hadn't talked about my paternal side to them before this, but it was just like, well, just like with grandma Maggie, I have a dad and I have this whole other side and I have his name and this will also help me with some health information that might be good for you too, if I don't find him or connect with them.
So it was, you know, I just, I don't know, I just, I, I'm very straightforward with my kids and honest with them, so I just, it just seemed natural.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. And my son ended up doing 23 and Me too.
Haley Radke: Oh.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. He wanted to do it too. So we did a kit. He did a kit as well. Okay.
Haley Radke: Do you think being the youngest had any impact or, you know, sometimes when it's like you're the oldest that was given up and then there, it's, it's like the usurping of the older role.
Lora K. Joy: Mm-hmm.
Haley Radke: Do you think that has had any like. benefit. I mean, not that we get to choose that one way or not , we, we are where we are in the lineup. But being able to have siblings that are older, more life experienced, they get it. Things are complicated and it takes work. I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that?
Lora K. Joy: You know, I have thought about the age order and the fact that I am the youngest on both sides. Yeah, I think it probably has helped a little bit, like with their understanding and their maturity. Right? I don't know. And they were in their fifties, you know, when I met them. So, yeah. And they're both open-minded and also they weren't su-, that was one of the first things they said was, we are not surprised about this and ...
Haley Radke: I just, that's so strange. And yet so telling like Yes.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. Well, and I told him, I said, well, he told me he had a vasectomy, but whether he was telling the truth or not, I don't know. So every time I get a 23 and me notice of a new relative, I. I ca I, at first I was getting a little panicky, but like, oh, it could be another one.
But,
Haley Radke: So far just the three of you
Lora K. Joy: So far. It's just me, , and them. Yeah. So it's, yeah, but it could happen. It could happen, but...
Haley Radke: wow. Yeah. So you have sort of the unicorn situation, although you worked really hard for this. I know you've done lots of work and therapy and healing to make sure you know how to set up healthy relationships, but a positive experience with your maternal side and then with your siblings on your paternal side, that's really tremendous.
Lora K. Joy: It is. I consider myself pretty lucky. I've, you know, I listened to other stories and, and I, I will say that I went into both searches with no expectation that this would happen, and I think that's really important that you be prepared for anything, any outcome. And I was in therapy both times when I went through search and reunion and....
That was the other thing. At the same time of, of my estrangement and the starting the DNA search, I entered into therapy again. And so I had the support of a therapist. So I think that's really, it's really key. And I know it's hard because it's so expensive and I know that it, it is not available to everybody, and that's why I appreciate your show so much.
The show, listening to the show has been as much, you know, guidance and therapy as well. For me. I've taken, I, I have listened to every episode of Adoptees On, every single one, and also every single off-script. And I take something from every episode regardless of my, if my lived experience is the same as the guest.
I, I learned something from every episode, and I appreciate the healing series, and I think that's what you're doing is so helpful because I know I, it was, I don't wanna say easier, let's put that in air quotes... to go through the process. Because I had the support of the community. I had listened to everyone else's stories.
I knew that anything could happen. And I had the support of the therapist and my family, my husband and kids. So yeah, it's, I also think both times I was ready.
Haley Radke: I, I just had an episode go up a few weeks ago with Marta Sierra, and she said something to the effect of, The response she got from her mother when she was talking about some, disclosing some things that she wasn't sure what her mother would think either way was like, I'm gonna be okay either way she reacts, and if we're going into it and we are strong enough in our person in that moment, like that's how we have to come into it because, so you literally don't know either way, and it sounds like that's how you were.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah, I, I definitely was. I, I. I have done a lot of internal work and that's part of why I wanted, I, I wanted to come back and share because I hope it's empowering for someone else to hear my story or at least part of it, just as every other episode has been empowering to me.
So I hope that... cuz I've, I've learned and grown from every, every guest. So I hope that I can contribute back a little bit with my story.
Haley Radke: Thank you. I appreciate that. And you have been like a very faithful supporter of the show and a reason it continues to exist in this world. So thank you. So coming out of doing these, this therapy, choosing estrangement from your adoptive parents and then having these reunions, long-term in a few years, what are some of the choices that you've made since then to like become even more your self.
Lora K. Joy: I have always, I think from both search experiences and the therapy work I've done, it's all been around, centered around finding my truth because I think that's where most of our healing happens. We can't, we can't heal, I don't think, unless we have the full truth. And even if your truth is rejection, secondary rejection from a bio family member, that is still truth, right? That's still information.
And living as an adoptee, until I started finding that truth and finding that power and finding my voice, I wasn't living my authentic self. I didn't know who that was or what that looked like, and just by untangling the grief and untangling the trauma, I've been able to sort of integrate that authentic self. And the same time lots of things were happening at the same time; estrangement, paternal search, and I was also writing and thinking of sharing my story through a memoir or something. And then the idea of the first Illustrated book came up and my husband said to me, I'm not really comfortable with us using your last married, last name for the book.
And I said, okay, but this is my truth. This is me. It has to be who I am. I can't make a pseudonym and be claiming that I'm speaking my truth, right? So I sat with it for a moment cuz I understood his concern and why? Because we live in a small community that is, people know us and whatnot. Even though it has nothing to do with his family, I just thought I, under, I, I, I can respect that boundary. So I started thinking about my birth name, which is Lora, which I would not have known had I not met my mom because she did not put it on my original birth certificate cuz she felt like she didn't have the right too.
Haley Radke: So she told you at some point, how did that come?
Lora K. Joy: Pretty quickly and early because on my adoption decree, my name was Kimberly. And then I had this other piece of paper that just had the last name and her name on it. And I honestly didn't realize, Haley, that I was holding my original birth certificate.
Haley Radke: Uhhuh, Uhhuh ,
Lora K. Joy: That's what it was. But the adoption paperwork had Kimberly and then it also had, that's where my dad's name was, plus a packet that she had filled out, the adoption agency.
And so when I met her, I said, oh, you named me Kimberly. And she said, no, I didn't. I said, oh, you didn't? No, I named you Lora. And I said, oh, well, who named me Kimberly? And she's like, I don't know where that name came from. So
Haley Radke: Someone just wrote it on the . Oh my gosh. Yeah. This is, this is, this is the second thing you've shared in this episode to just remind folks you cannot trust what is in your paperwork. Like Right. Period.
Lora K. Joy: Exactly
Haley Radke: You just cannot.
Lora K. Joy: Nope. Nope. No. And, and I think, I think that a lot when I hear people talk about their, their paperwork. So then my, my adoptive name is Joy, so my biological mother's last name also starts with a K.
And so I started playing around with the Lora and the Kimberly and the Joy, and then I came up with Lora K. Joy because, K represented both things, Kimberly and and her last name. So I said, you know what, that's like a progression of me. I was Lora, and for five weeks I was Kimberly, and then I was named by my adoptive parents, Joy
Haley Radke: I've never connected that, Lora and I, I know this story was so oh my gosh. That makes me love it even more.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. So I, I decided that Lora K. Joy could be my name, that I am publishing a book under writing a blog under. And so that's how that came about. And I started showing up in the Flourish Group and in other adoptee spaces as Lora K. Joy and I started sort of trying on Lora. And after my estrangement, which was early in the year, I continued to be Lora in the adoptee space. And by the end of that year, I thought one day I've just like, I'm I am Lora. Like, I like that ghost had come to the surface and sort of integrated. I thought, you know, I have listened to other people on this podcast talk about changing their name, and I thought, I could never do that.
I could never do that. And I, I think it was because I had the restraint of the pressure of my adoptive family or society. And so the estrangement gave me the freedom and the space to explore that and to try that on and to really accept it when it became sort of my truth.
And always I had hated my adoptive name. I, it felt like a lie. I hated answering to it, and I thought, I'm, I'm Lora. Okay. Now I don't wanna go through this process of changing every bit of paperwork in my life, with my new name, but that's my truth, and I'm going to. I'm, I'm gonna change my name. And so I told my husband one day, I just said, I'm, I'm Lora now, and I'm going to, I think I'm gonna change my name.
And he was like, did a little head spin, but he, he was fully supportive and so I did it in my birthday month. And my birthday month was like two months later and it's January, so my birthday's in January. So I was like, I'm gonna get through the holidays and then, I'm gonna do that for my birthday. So like initiate that.
So I didn't tell anyone. I told my husband, my kids, and like two friends maybe, because I didn't even tell my mom. I just said, when it's official, then I'm gonna tell people. Because what if something happens? Because in, in, in the state of Washington where I live, I had to go to the courthouse and the judge had to approve it.
And I thought, well, what if he doesn't approve it? Like I, I don't know, seems like a shoe-in thing, but you know, what if there's something that goes awry here? And I don't wanna get, I don't want other people to be disappointed. So I went to the courthouse, filled out the paperwork, and a week later I went in and my son actually went with me, and 10 minutes later it was official.
Haley Radke: So do the people in your real life call you Lora?
Lora K. Joy: Yes, now they do. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Does your husband call you Lora?
Lora K. Joy: He does, yeah.
Haley Radke: Was that strange?
Lora K. Joy: Yes. Yes. I mean, cuz we'd been married for almost like almost 19 years at that and we'd been date, you know, we dated for a time before that.
So yeah, everybody was a little bit shocked, but also understanding and supportive. And it, it was kind of funny because in the beginning if he would get flustered with me or be like, grumpy with me, he would call me my old name and I would say, that's not, I don't have to answer to that anymore. That's not my name. Just kinda joke.
And, and really it was like maybe a week or two of adjustment for him and he has been the most consistent. . And it didn't matter for my kids cuz they don't call me my name anyway. They call me mom. Yeah. But when I told my kids they were very excited and supportive.
Yeah. Super, super excited about it.
Haley Radke: What does it feel like to claim I was gonna say a new name, but your old name back, your original name, and have people in your real life call you that? What does it feel?
Lora K. Joy: I will say that the next day after it was official, I felt Lora sort of sink into my chest like it was real and who I had always, who I was always supposed to be, who I was meant to be.
And at first I thought it won't bother me if people call me my old name. And of course I'm gonna give people an adjustment timeframe here, but it really did start to bother me kind of quickly if they messed up. It, it did, it did bug me. I, cuz I felt like once I tell people, you should know and that's it. We're moving on.
But it's not that easy I guess for, for, for some people, but it just, it feels like I've integrated that ghost of Lora, that person I should have always been. And it's, I think at the beginning I was still a little surprised when people would call me Lora, like, cuz it was new to me too. I was adjusting to that.
But also I had been in adoptee spaces where people called me Lora. So I think it's just reaffirming and reassuring and to know that I took control and had agency over that. Empowering. Yeah, I think empowering is the biggest word to describe it.
Haley Radke: What did your mom say when you told her you were changing your name?
Lora K. Joy: So I called her that day after it was official.
Haley Radke: Did she, did she know?
Lora K. Joy: No.
Haley Radke: Oh my God. So she wasn't even in on it.
Lora K. Joy: Okay. Okay. Nope. She wasn-. She wasn't in on it. So I called her, and let me just say that through this whole experience, she is even keeled. Like it is what it is. Whatever makes you happy like you are, like, she's just not emotional.
She doesn't get, she's not excitable. That sort of thing. And I called her and I said, well, I have some news, and I said I wanted to wait till it was official, so it was done, but I changed my name to Lora and she went, you did? Like, she got so excited. Like the first time I heard excitement in her voice.
Haley Radke: I'm, I'm picturing being her and thinking, oh my gosh, Lora is like choosing me. Like, because that's what she named you. I don't know can you... has, has she expressed more of what that meant to her?
Lora K. Joy: No. No. No, just, just that she was excited and happy for me and happy for her. Like just, yeah. Like I said, she's just kinda right here all the time and yeah. So she's, yeah. Well, well, as a result of changing my name, I got to go through every piece of paperwork in my life and update it.
Haley Radke: So just like a warning if people are like, that sounds fun. I should change my name. Yeah. It's not fun.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. Like actually changing my name was easy, right? 10 minutes at the courthouse, done . Then I got to come home and think about every thing my name is on, and honestly, I'll... here's a tip, I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I went to a wedding website and it listed all the places a bride should remember to change her name if she changes her last name at marriage.
And I'm like, oh good, this is good. I need all, I need to go to all these things. So I wrote, I kind of printed off that list and, and then remembered other things that weren't on it that I needed to take care of. So yeah, that's a tip. If you do change your name. Print that list off first before you, you know, make sure you, you know, where you gotta go. Social Security, passport driver's license, all the things.
Haley Radke: Lora, I, spoiler alert, you have a blog. You should write the blog post for that.
Lora K. Joy: Oh, I should. You're right. Well, I did write a blog post about changing my name.
Haley Radke: Perfect. And just add the checklist on there.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah, I should. Yeah, because I felt like, and, and I'll tell you, I told people individually after I changed my name, like my mom. And then I had people that I called. I had people that I texted, and then I just changed my name on social media. I didn't make an announcement about it, I just changed it. And I'll tell you, not one person said anything to me about it. It was bizarre.
So I thought I also wanted to write a blog post for the adoptee community, and also, it also explains why I did it. And the conviction of it. And, and so then I shared that so that people would understand the importance of it. And I think too, when people were struggling with remembering to call me my new name, I thought, well, this will be a good, like once they read this, it's a.... important. So I'm going through all my paperwork and everything is changed except my marriage license and my amended adoptive birth certificate.
So I have this amended adoptive birth certificate here with adoptive parents' names on it that I no longer have relationship with, and I have my old name and it just feels really gross and like, I don't want this piece of paper anymore and I do not want this to be my birth certificate. So I start thinking about how can I get that changed?
And I called a lawyer, a family lawyer in Indiana because that's where I was adopted, and I said, here's the situation. I'd like to get my original birth certificate reinstated. Like, can I get my mom back on my birth certificate with my new name? And they said, well, the only way we can do that is through an adult adoption.
And I'm like, oh, that's gross. I don't wanna be adopted again. She's my mom, like, sh, she shouldn't have to adopt me back. But legally that's what we have to work with here in the States. So I thought about it for a while and, and in that conversation it was with a, a gentleman, an older gentleman, and he said, well, we would have to send letters to your adoptive parents just to let them know that this was happening.
They wouldn't be involved, they wouldn't be asked to say anything or whatever, but they could fight it if they wanted to. And I said, well, they aren't gonna fight it. They don't, they can't, they're not gonna pay a lawyer to do that. And so I thought, okay, I'm gonna think about this for a, a minute and kind of let it process.
And with kind of both my name change and this process, I wanted it to be organic. I didn't wanna force it. And so about three months later I thought, you know, I think, I think I wanna go, go through with this. I, I, I really want to be my mom's daughter. Again, I really want my name to be correct. I really want my original birth certificate sort of reinstated.
So I talked to my mom. At that point, I talked to her. I hadn't talked to her yet. I just thought, I'm gonna, again, I don't wanna, if I back out, I don't wanna like get her excited about it or whatever. So I said, I called her and I said, here's what I'm thinking. And she goes, that's weird. I gave birth to you, like why do I have to adopt you?
I said, I know it's weird. Think about it. Don't- no pressure. If you don't wanna do it, it's totally fine. No rush, whatever. And so we talked for about an hour and at the end of the conversation she said, oh, just it's fine. It's just putting things back the way they were. Let's do it. And I said, okay, great. So I called the same, like a law office, back and this gentleman that I'd spoken to a few months.
Had left cuz he, I think he became ill or something. He retired. And so they assigned me to this new female lawyer. And in our first meeting with her, she's like, this is easy. Like super, super simple. Like you're both adults. You're both consenting. You're not doing anything. You're not, you're not doing it for nefarious reasons.
Like this is a 10 minute court thing. And like we're, this is super easy. And I said, okay, wait, you know, the, the previous gentleman I spoke with said, we have to a notify my adoptive parents. And she goes, no, we don't. You're an adult. You don't need anybody's permission for this. And I said, oh, awesome.
Like that's even better . So I, I was a, we were able to move forward with just the two of us. And a story within the story is that she was adopted from foster care, this lawyer. and her sister was adopt, like she and her sister were adopted together from foster care, and she was so sympathetic and empathetic to my story, my situation, our situation, and just super supportive of, of it.
So we get the court date, we, we do the thing, it's over Zoom and the lawyer says, Now can you send me the statute that says we don't need to notify the adoptive parents and we were all sort of like surprised and so the lawyer was like, oh yeah, of course I can send that right over. Like, she should have approved it in the 10 minute, 12 minute court hearing. Right. Zoom.
Haley Radke: Sorry, it's the who asked for it? The judge asked for it. The judge?
Lora K. Joy: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay.
Lora K. Joy: The judge. Yeah. And so the lawyer's like, of course I can send it right over. And then it was sort of a really abrupt ending to this Zoom court session. And we hang up and I called her right away. I was like, what?
What just happened? So it wasn't approved right away. And so the, the lawyer had to like kinda work through it with the judge. Like, yeah, here's the statute. Like she's an adult. She doesn't need anybody's approval or permission. No one needs to be notified. She's not a minor. It's a completely different situation than if she's a minor.
So it was about five days later that we got the official approval. So in, yeah, my mom just legally reclaimed me. It was a, it was a little bit of a scare in the court session with the judge, but it, it happened and so yeah. Now I'm, I'm legally my mom's daughter again and I'm awaiting my new air quote, birth certificate in the mail.
Haley Radke: And so, congratulations. So thank you. That was, that happened in the state of Indiana because that's how your adopt where your adoption was.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah, I was born and adopted in Indiana.
Haley Radke: Okay. And is your biological father's name going to be on your new birth certificate?
Lora K. Joy: No. No, no. We actually had the, I, I guess if we had chosen to put him on there, we, I don't know if we would've had to include him or not and get his permission, but we decided not to.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. My mom and I decided not to.
Haley Radke: Okay. Very interesting. I've heard from so many people since we released the Grace Kelly episode in Australia.
Lora K. Joy: I love... awesome!
Haley Radke: When she talks about annulling adoptions, and that's possible in Australia. And so I had lots of people reach out and it, it, it's, it is as of right now as we're recording, as you say, I don't think it's possible yet in the United States to have an adoption annulled or undone in some way. Instead, it's this re adoption adult adoption process.
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. It is what it is. I mean, it, it is, it's kind of, I don't like the name of it, but I kind of just refer to it as being reclaimed.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm. So before we do recommended resources, is there anything else you wanna say to adopted people? I, I, I remember you saying before, like, oh, I heard all these people change their names, and you're like, I didn't, I never thought I could do that. How has this progressed for you in all the years of doing therapy and being in the adoptee community, the impacts that's had on you? Any thoughts on, on that as we wrap up?
Lora K. Joy: Yeah. A, again, you know, a few people have changed their name, right. That you've interviewed and even fewer have been unadopted or reclaimed or, and, and when I would hear those stories, I felt the same way.
Like, whoa, never, I could never do that. And it was a natural process for me, but knowing other people had done it helped me know that I could do it too if I wanted to. And I, as a part of the previous episode on estrangement, it was like I wanted agency in my life and I wanted agency. I wanted to continue that, and that was, these were sort of the just next natural steps for me.
And as I continued to do that internal work, which we haven't talked about, but it's like those are, that's, that was the point of my illustrated books and then the adoptee community book from the Flourish Experience. That is how I was able to grow and heal and sort of an accounting of that and listening to this, this podcast and others, and having the strength from this community is what has allowed me to go through the process myself, and I hope that by sharing my evolution and my healing and my growth, that I can empower someone else. Because even if it's just a nugget from this conversation that sparks something in you, I hope that it's helpful because that's what has everyone else has done for me.
Haley Radke: Hmm. Well you have, you know, shared on the show before and you're sharing again today, and I know you've guested on another podcast telling different parts of your story. And as I was re-listing to all of those things to prepare, I , this is gonna sound silly, but I finally was like, oh, these stories you've written, the illustrated books, they're... it's your story.
Lora K. Joy: It's my story.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Like , which sounds so silly as like your friend, to like not have gotten it until that, but. I remember when you announced you were, you were writing these books and you were, you had published and shared, and so I ordered them right away and then you gifted me copies, which was so kind of you, cuz mine are signed.
I, I gifted all of the copies I purchased to my psychologist because she works with lots of children and, yes, my psychologist works for children and me and . .
Lora K. Joy: Oh my god, I didn't make that connection. Uhhuh.
Haley Radke: Yeah. No, but she , she works with adults too. But she was so excited cuz I was like, oh my gosh. One of my listeners wrote these and my friends said like, it's just, yeah. So anyway, I've been bragging on you, but they're so lovely, so beautiful. The, I dunno, I don't know which one to go to. I'll, I'll go to your, your newest one. The self attunement, an adoptee superpower. There is this drawing of you curled into yourself as a little one, that is so powerful.
It says; Little Sarah curled herself into Sarah. She was finally safe and where she belonged.
And I don't know, something about that just hit me like so deeply because it the impact all of the years of therapy. All of your work in your healing journey to culminate in things that can empower other adoptees to know, okay, I can care for my little self too.
I can look into IFS and, and research what that means. And, and I can like, take care of myself and love myself and accept myself and, and find empowerment, is just like huge. So I love that you've shared these in such an accessible way and they're so beautiful and cute and fun. I wish I could show everybody the pictures.
But as you wrap in the, I'm still, this is still the self attunement one. " Sarah was attuning to herself. Sarah knows the trauma from adoption is real and difficult, but Sarah also knows she has the power to heal and take care of herself."
Like isn't that just it. Lovely.
And you also mentioned, well no, I think I mentioned that you blog to on MyAdopteeTruth so people can hear more from you about all the things that you've done in this work on your journey.
And I'm so proud of you. Like I've seen, I came in at the tail end, but I've seen so much from you in these last few years. So is there anything you wanna tell us about your books or your blog or anything like, I don't know. I'm just, I'm, I feel, I feel some sort of motherly pride, even though like, I'm not your mother.
Lora K. Joy: Well, you should take some credit because, you are in inspiration to all of us and what you are doing with the podcast in helping other people sharing their stories in the healing jour, the healing series and all the series that you do. It's like, you know, what you just made me think of right now is like, oh, I was talking about how therapy is not accessible to everyone, and you provide this source and like, oh, I have basically put into three books My Healing Journey, and two of them include, like, two of them are like visits to my therapist and like what she told me and how I was able to work through it from that perspective. And so they, they are my truth, they are my true lived experience and that is exactly what I hope that they can do is help other adoptees.
Adult adoptees I think can read these and hopefully see something like you did, they do present as children's books, but I think they need to be guided.
Haley Radke: Yes.
Lora K. Joy: With a therapist. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . I will say I did like, I consulted my therapist before I published them. I'm like, do are these any good? Like, do you think they're gonna be helpful? She's like, absolutely.
And then, I've had other therapists say back to me that they use them. Multiple therapists. So I hope that they are a good tool for other adoptees to heal and maybe a little bit faster than I did.
Haley Radke: Well, this might sound sacrilegious to some readers because I do not dog ear my books, but I have been tempted to slice out a page to frame it. So I may order another one so I can do that. The illustrations are so good.
Lora K. Joy: They're beautiful. So Lora Foot is the illustrator and she, she is not adopted. But Haley, when I tell you, I gave her the, the written text for the book and she nailed the drawings on the first try. She gets it. And when I was super nervous when I was introduced to her because I thought, oh, what if she doesn't like this?
What if she like, what if it's uncomfortable? And she said, the first thing she said to me was, this is important and I am gonna be proud to help you bring this to life.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Lora K. Joy: So I just adore her. And yeah, I think the drawings are just perfect.
Haley Radke: I think the last time you were on, I don't know if you had one out or two, but now your...
Lora K. Joy: Just one.
Haley Radke: ...trilogy is out and yeah. It's such a beautiful set together. Speaking of books, what did you wanna recommend to us?
Lora K. Joy: Okay. I'm very excited to talk about this because it is a result of a year in flourish. It's called the Flourish Experience, the power of adoptee healing and community, and revelation that we had in that year with Pam and Anne was so profound, and at the end of that year we said, how can we sort of commemorate this?
How can we help other adoptees achieve this? Because they weren't continuing flourish. And so we decided to write about our experience in community and the power of that and how we were transformed through it. So another adoptee and I sort of quarterbacked, to use sports reference, this project where we had any member of Flourish who wanted to write, contribute, and we asked them to write about their experience in Flourish.
And most do, but also they tell some of their stories as well, their adopt- adoptee stories. And because it was from and about our community, and because you started that, we wanted to contribute back to Adoptees On, because if it hadn't been for you and the podcast, we would not have ever met.
And Pam and Anne based this class on their friendship. And they wanted other people to have a friendship like theirs, adoptee, friendships, and they would not have met if it hadn't been for you. And most of us wouldn't have found them if it hadn't been for you. So the proceeds from this book go back to Adoptees On.
And, the artwork on the cover, which is stunning. It was created by three members of our group, and there are three very different pieces, but their interpretation of their experience in the class. We put the three together into a, a beautiful cover, and we auctioned off, the auction's already done, but we auctioned off the original pieces. We've sold prints and the prints are still for sale on the Flourish Experience website.
Haley Radke: I have Have one.
Lora K. Joy: Yes. Yes you do. Which one do you have?
Haley Radke: I have Michelle's piece.
Lora K. Joy: Okay. It's a mirror. It's a mirroring piece. It's beautiful. And so the prints, the print sales, and the auctioned original pieces that benefited Savings Our Sisters, because we're all passionate about family preservation.
Haley Radke: Yes. Fabulous charity in the United States run by Renee and helps mothers who are in crisis, parent their children and prevent unnecessary adoptions. Yeah. Tremendous.
Lora K. Joy: We, the book is, I believe it's powerful because it's 23 people speaking up about the power of healing. And it's not just adoption, it's not just reunion, it's about the grief that we all experience and what it's like to be in community with other adoptees.
We mirror each other like no one else can, and being with other adoptees is, is just so healing and we wanted to share that with other people and we, we hope that the book encourages you to find your own flourish family. In the back of the book is all of our writing prompts and our monthly themes so you can sort of recreate if you'd like.
And also as many resources as we could think of. We put a resource list in the back of other adoptee resources and books and blogs so. That, I can't recommend it enough because. I know how much it transformed me and I hope it helps other people grow and heal too.
Haley Radke: Thank you. It's so, it was so kind of you all to donate the proceeds to the show and I'm so grateful. And we did an episode on the Flourish Experience as well. It's 219, so if you wanna go back and you wanna hear from some of the authors of the book or. Just curious more about building adoptee community and what that could look like for you, I encourage you to do that. Thank you so much, Lora. What an honor to speak with you again and share more of your story and I know you hope it will empower. I know it will , like I know it will bring a sense of agency back into our lives that we can make these choices and, and it could be a year's long process. Right?
Lora K. Joy: Right. It's not overnight is it? You know, give yourself time and just know that you're allowed.
Haley Radke: You're adult. You can do what you want now.
Lora K. Joy: Exactly.
Haley Radke: Yes, you're allowed. I love that. Thank you.
Lora K. Joy: Thank you so much, haley.
(Upbeat music)
Haley Radke: I really enjoy talking with Lora. She has been a longtime supporter of the show. We've become friends and I think the things that she's sharing are just really inspiring and motivating to like dig in into our stuff, right? It's so easy to let things lie and just sort of accept the status quo, I guess I'm trying to say.
And she is one that does not do that. And so she's very inspiring to me. So thank you so much, Lora, for coming back and talking with us.
I am really, really pleased about all the great things Adoptees On patrons are getting. So we have the weekly podcast, and this month in February, 2023, we are reading Shannon Gibney's new book and we have book club at the end of the month with her.
And so, yeah, we'd love to have you join us for that. You go to Adopteeson.com/bookclub. You can find out details of our reads for 2023 or Adopteeson.com/community for the other Patreon details. Would love to have you as a part of our community. Thank you so much for listening, and let's talk again next Friday.
