244 Deanna Shrodes, D.Min. (Part 2)
/Haley: This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adoptees on the podcast or adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radkey. We are back with part two of our interview with Dr. Deanna Shrodes. Last week, Deanna shared with us how her father Gus Nicholas, was found in May, 2022 at the age of 92 after a first cousin, DNA match.
Deanna was his only daughter and they had several precious months together in Reunion before he passed away in December of 2020. Their story is so unbelievable that it's been featured on CBS Mornings and has gone viral around the world. Today we talk more about grief, the adoptee community, and how Deanna is handling some hard news that some of her maternal family members were keeping secrets from her and Gus for decades.
Before we get started, I wanna personally invite you to join our adoptee Patreon community over on adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world. We wrap up with some recommended resources for you, and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website, AdopteesOn.com.
Let's listen in.
I feel like I got to know Gus through all the stories you shared as you were writing about him on Facebook. And I'm curious how, and I mean like the minutiae if you wanna go into it, like how did you get to know him from being a stranger, to having him in your home? And I, I know you documented some of it and videos and things, but like, were you always asking each other questions, like, how....
Deanna Shrodes: Oh, yeah.
Haley: How were you getting to know part of his history and things?
Deanna Shrodes: Until he got too sick to have those conversations, we constantly talked. Matter of fact, his nurse, who was a huge part of me being able to bring him home and huge part of our lives, and sh her name is Charlotte. She's still a huge part of mine and Larry's life today.
We will never not be a part of each other's lives. We've gotten very close. But, um, his nurse even stated on his funeral service and his funeral video, she said, Deanna visited Gus from sun up to sundown, and they never stopped talking. She said, I don't even think there was a moment that they ever stopped talking.
Now the moments we stopped talking, we were usually sitting there listening to music for a while together, and that was really the only time we stopped talking. But I would always think, I would even make lists on my phone of what are some of the things I wanna ask my father? While he's still alive. And like I said, Hailey, I never knew whether I had a day, a month, a year, two years.
I, I never knew. So I would write down, I mean, I had lists of, what's your favorite color? What's your favorite movie, what's your favorite number? What, what are your favorite music artists? What did you like to do most as a child? Tell me what you remember most about Elementary School. Tell me what you remember the most about middle school.
You know, tell me what you remember the most about high school. And of course, tons of questions about my mother. Questions about, you know, just his life as a dancer, questions about his career, questions about what it would've been like had he raised me. I would ask him things like, would you have allowed me to do this as a kid?
And he would tell me, well, yeah, as a father I would've done this, or, Nope, I wouldn't have allowed you to do that. And we would just, we would talk about things that were, that were, for lack of a better word, real or imagined we would talk about what was definitely real. Like, what is your favorite color or your favorite movie.
And then we would talk about imaginary things, like, if I would've been raised with you, would you have allowed me to date as a teenager? Things like that, you know. I don't know for sure, but you know, in his imagination, this is what I would've allowed or not allowed. And so we just talked for hours. We, if Gus was feeling up to it, usually it would take me an hour to feed him.
And usually dinner time was the time where, in between bites we would be talking and I would ask him questions or he would ask me questions. And then after dinner we would sit and talk for a long time. And just like I had people send him, he, we had several holidays together. We both had, during the time he was alive, we had both of our birthday.
And we had Father's Day, we had Thanksgiving and then we celebrated Christmas early together cuz he's was starting to get so sick. I didn't know how long it would be, but when I ask everyone to send him birthday cards and he got hundreds in the mail and I ask everyone to not just sign their name but write a little something more.
And he would, he would ask me on every card, how do you know that person? How are they in your life? How did they come to know you? And he would want to know the backstory of each person that sent the birthday card. And we went through those birthday cards again and again and again cuz he was so thrilled.
He wanted, he wanted to keep hearing them, you know, and I'll never get rid of the birthday cards. I mean, they're, we're always gonna have the birthday cards.
Haley: I saw you share a quilt as well recently. Do you wanna talk about that?
Deanna Shrodes: Yeah, so he wore t-shirts every day. And I had a dear friend, Melissa Kendall, makes t-shirts and she made all kinds, they would, when he was in the nursing home, he wore one, uh, well, several of them that said, my daughter loves me, and it had a Greek flag.
And then we had one that said, Mr. Greek, And then when we were bringing him home, I said I wanted a few of them. I wanted one that said Florida or Bust, and it was gonna be one for him and one for me. And then our, our date of birth on like our years that we were born on the back.
And then one that said, free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, free at last, cuz he was finally breaking outta there. And I had various shirts made for him over time and those were what he wore every day. Different ones of those. And then once he passed away, I didn't just wanna leave them hanging there in the closet. I wanted to have something where I could see them often.
And so my son's mother-in-law made, made them into a beautiful quilt for me.
Haley: I love having those tangible things, right? Like that's when your person's not there anymore, having something that you can hold onto. It just feels like. This extra level of importance.
Deanna Shrodes: Absolutely.
Haley: Okay. Let's talk about the very hardest thing, the grief. And so you lost your biological mother, and so you know what that grief was like for you, and I don't know how you experience it to this day. But then Gus passed, your adoptive mother passed very soon after that. Funerals were two days apart.
Deanna Shrodes: Yes.
Haley: And this is just a couple of months ago when we're recording this. This just happened just two, two months ago. How are you doing like this is such heavyweight to bear, and then can you talk about it from the adoptee lens where so much of the world would say, Maybe support you more when an adoptive parent dies and count that grief more than the disenfranchised grief that we have where our biological connections don't seem to matter as much to everyone else.
I don't know. Gus sort of wove his way into many of our hearts though, so I don't know if you experienced that or not.
Deanna Shrodes: Yeah, I was gonna say that if I wouldn't have gone so public with my relationship with Gus, I mean, I post every day, usually multiple times a day and our photos together, I mean anybody, even somebody who's not my Facebook friend right now could go to my public Facebook and see that my cover photo is him in my arms on his last moments dying.
I posted the photos of me laying, you know, the day that they told me he was transitioning out of this world. And it was so hard for me to come to terms with that. And when I came home that day, they called me at work. I just thought he had a U.T.I. That I was not thinking this was it.
And I had called and said, Hey, I need somebody to stop by today and just take a culture and let's get some antibiotics going. That's what I thought this was gonna be. And instead they called and said, no, he's transitioning. And I raced home. Literally crawled into, you know, into bed, you know, on the side with him and just held him.
And I just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. And all this time my husband would document everything. So, you know, he snapped a picture of that. And I posted something like, you know, they say big girl shouldn't cry. This big girl's crying today. You know, and posted that of me and Gus. Like the old song, Big Girls Don't Cry.
And I said but I'm crying today. And I, I just lost it. I lost it. I absolutely lost it. And, That was that was on a Tuesday. And honestly, he was, he was doing super bad that day. He was kind of non-responsive. And when I started, when I began crying like that and just held on, he started fighting. He started roaring back, as I call it.
He started rallying because again, he's gonna make it okay. He knew I was not okay. It was so upsetting to him that I was not okay. He even said, are you okay? I said, I'm not okay today, Gus, I'm not. Okay. And he came roaring back and for the next two days he came roaring back. We made all these incredible, hilarious videos together and I posted 'em online and we took a ton of pictures together.
We listened to so much music together. I read story after story to him. We had two glorious days and I thought, oh, these doctors, they're wrong. They had no idea what they're talking about. He's fine. This was just a stupid infection, and if they had only listened to me. And then I noticed he started going into that again two days later.
He wasn't okay. He had just rallied for me cuz he had seen how upset that I was and it became clear then that he couldn't just keep rallying back. And yeah, those, I think that you're right. I have received so much support, probably only because I went to so public, even showing our intimate moments of me gripping onto him crying while he's sick, you know?
And posted a lot of hilarious videos of him talking when he was better and everybody loved him and thought he was hilarious. And I would post our little antics. We're just writing them out of funny conversations and things. And so, you're right, he wormed his way into people's hearts. And so when he passed away, everybody was devastated for me too.
And they totally, they totally accepted him as my parent. As my father. As my family member. The world seemed to see him as that too, so I was so lucky. I know all adoptees are not so lucky that people view their family members that way. I, you know, I realized that when Gus got real sick for a week before that he was in the hospital and I went in with him and I stayed the whole time.
I just, they had a bed there and I never left. I was there for a week and I never told them our story. Because I was so afraid they would not accept me as his real daughter and that I would not be respected when I was calling the shots and when I was taking care of him, and when I was stipulating, you know, this is what you need to do to make things right and to take care of my father.
I was afraid of that disrespect, that adoptees so often have. I thought, I the whole time he's laying there in the bed. I'm thinking if one person, if even one person in this place finds out our story and starts treating me like, I'm not his real family. I will ex, I will explode on this place. So I'd never told anybody our story until the day that we left and they were wheeling him out of there to go home.
I finally told a few of the nurses, and of course they wept and wept and they, they just thought it was the most incredible thing they ever heard. And they said, why didn't you tell us you've been here a whole week? I said, in case you didn't view me and says real daughter, I just could not, I couldn't take the chance that you weren't gonna see me as real.
If you didn't see me as real family, I wouldn't have been able to cope with that because this man means everything to me. So, yeah, I had a lot of support when he passed away, and I still do of people who do view him as my real family.
But the grief answer to your question, it is extremely hard. I'm not living with bitterness, I'm not living with anger.
I have a lot of reason to be those things. I found out three weeks before he passed away, we were recording, well. I always just set the phone up and pressed to record and just kept it going and just, we lived our life. I didn't go, Hey, we're gonna record this conversation. I wanted to just have all these moments preserved, and so when I walked into the room, I would just set it up and let it go and just, we would live life.
And I was having a conversation with him three weeks before he died and I said, Hey, did you ever think about me through the, through the years? He said all the time, all the time. And I said, well, what did you do about it, Gus? And he said, Deanna, there were obstacles. There were obstacles. And he said, I tried. And in my heart, I believed him.
I did believe him. And I don't think he could recall or remember exactly what, who he approached or what he tried. You know? I'm not sure if it was just.... that wasn't, those weren't memories that he could call up in his mind at the time, but he told me, I tried. I tried and there were obstacles, so I just, I did believe him, but I had no proof of it.
And then he died. And then just a few weeks ago, I found out what some of those obstacles were. I had been asking my maternal birth family for years. I ask every one of them anything about my father and I would be told, we know nothing. We know nothing. We don't know anything. Most of them support my mother's decision to keep it a secret.
They want her wishes to be respected. And I had repeatedly asked this one section of the family, there are three girls, and I had repeatedly asked all three of the, my cousins, do you know anything? And nope, they, they knew nothing according to them. But they would get very, the two, the two oldest would get very offended that I was asking.
And would even say, one even said, don't ever ask me these questions again. Don't ever contact me again. And one, you know, blocked me on Facebook. Well, if you know nothing, why are you so sensitive about it? You know why? And it happens to be these cousin's mother and her husband that took my mom to the maternity home and brought her home several hours, several hours one way and several hours back.
Do you mean to tell me that she doesn't tell them who got her pregnant or what her circumstances are? So I always felt these, these are the people that know who my father is, and they would constantly say, we know nothing and please don't ever ask us this again.
So a couple weeks ago we were looking through Gus's papers because I've got, you know, all of his business paper, all of his stuff, and I was looking through it.
I hadn't really gone through it at all when I was taking care of him and he was sick. I didn't have time. Stuff from way back. I mean, just, you know, recent. Started going through all this stuff from way back, and Larry uncovered this folder that was a file of his important papers from long ago. And Gus kept everything. And due to a issue with his eyesight, he had this large block, very large handwriting. So I know exactly what his handwriting was.
And Larry opens this folder and right on top is a piece of paper with Gus's handwriting, and it's my aunt's name and phone number. The girl's mother, the cousin's mother, the one that drove my mom to the maternity home, and it was her, it was her phone number. And she's passed away now. But this was her phone number that she had for like her, you know, entire adult life.
And I instantly, first of all, I cried for two reasons. I cried because I had proof that my father told the truth. He reached out. He was trying. He was trying to get ahold of them and say, where is my child? And who has her and what's happening. I, I was upset because I had proof that Gus did try.
Number two, I was crying because I had proof that they lied. I had proof that they really did conspire to keep us apart. So I took a photo of this piece of paper and I texted one of the girls and I said, so you guys knew nothing, but here's your mom's phone number and Gus's name and phone number in his handwriting. What do you have to say for this?
Well, it was a different time back then. I wished it wasn't so different back then. Things were just different then. I said, you know what? Things were different then, but this is 2023 and you're still acting the same way. Things aren't any different now. Apparently, because you're still doing the same things, the same secrets, the same lies.
Well, you know, my sisters and I just feel that, you know, we just need to protect our mom. Well protect her from what? She's in the grave. She's dead. What are you protecting her from? So I have proof that they did know who my father was, and I have proof that he was reaching out. And I could be bitter and angry and hateful about that.
I'm just not going to let them turn me into something I don't wanna be. All this is already taken enough away from me in my life. I don't need anymore to be taken away. I'm not gonna let it turn me into someone that I don't want to be.
Haley: I'm sorry. That is, it's so upsetting.
Deanna Shrodes: I know
Haley: Because when I hear that, I just hear of the time you were robbed, robbed of, with him.
Deanna Shrodes: I know. I have to get up every day, Hailey. And as much as it hurts, I have to focus on what we did have instead of what we didn't have.
Haley: Yeah.
Deanna Shrodes: I'm really not trying to spiritually bypass this. I'm not sure how much you're familiar with that term. I know you're familiar with a ton of psychological terms and things, particularly concerning adoption, but you know, as Christians we can spiritually bypass by just using a bunch of Christian cliches and quotes and not really grieve and feel our pain.
And I'm not, I'm trying so hard not to do that and just spiritually bypass the grief that I'm feeling. But I try to think about things like, okay, you know, Gus could have lived apart from me in Virginia and I could have visited him once or twice a year. But no, I moved him into my house and had him every, you know, basically had my father every single day for months and months and months and months.
So I console myself by saying even some people that are with their natural father don't get to see him that much. You know, my adoptive dad lives far away. I see him very, very little. Of course, he had me for 18 years growing up. So there's that. I know that. I had Gus every day for months and months, and I have to just keep focusing on, wow.
It's such a miracle that I was able to have Gus for months and months before he passed, and it was such a miracle that he accepted me from second one and that was never a struggle and that we won the battle to bring him home. And I, I have to just keep focusing on tho those things or it will swallow me up.
Haley: Okay. Hopefully this is my last hard question, .
Deanna Shrodes: I welcome hard questions.
Haley: I know, but I hate making people feel painful things. It's not what it's here for. But, you know, I know you're such an open person and, and you've shared so vulnerably about this journey, and, and I feel like, you know, you and I both are people that talk about the things that no one else is like really gonna say out loud.
How has it been different for you and are you able to separate, you know, I don't know what the relationship was like with your adoptive mother. But I, I could read the difference in your posts when you posted about her funeral and then two days later, Gus's service, and then I was able to watch the memorial service that you had for Gus. It's still available on YouTube if anyone wants to see Gus dance. Like there's, it's, there's all these photos of him in the dancing. Oh my goodness. It's just really special. A special treasure that, to share that with us.
Are you able to kind of see the differences in your grieving or are you willing to talk a little bit about that, share about those relationship differences?
Deanna Shrodes: I, I've never, spoken about this openly before, except in one article interview that I just did that hasn't even come out yet. And I share more freely about it now because she's passed. But unfortunately, I wasn't close to my adoptive mom for many reasons. It's probably a podcast all in itself. Not that I'm inviting myself back or anything.
But we weren't close and she never accepted why we weren't close. It had nothing to do with my birth parents. I think she wanted to blame it a lot on that, particularly my birth mom, because we were in relationship for 20 years. But she and I had differences and struggles even way before I ever reunited. And I wish it wasn't that way.
I don't come to this conversation. In fact, I've never come to this conversation before. This is the first time I've ever spoke of it directly publicly. But we struggled forever . For a long time, I didn't want it to be that way. I still wish it weren't that way. I wish it didn't have to be that way.
Just to give you illustration of just one example of what I'm saying regarding my birth parents being blamed, when my birth mother died, I was devastated. I was devastated on two levels, first of all, because we had been in a relationship for 20 years, and aside from not agreeing about my father, it was a really good relationship. And I was devastated that she passed away, and I was also devastated that she took his name to the grave. Absolutely devastated.
So I'm grieving that. And it hadn't even been hours. Hadn't even been hours that my birth, I mean, I think it might have been four or five hours that she passed away. And my adoptive mother... and I ignored the phone call because I just knew it was gonna be terrible and I was not ready to answer that phone in the distraught state that I was in....
Not that I would never have answered the phone, but in that moment it just, I needed time. I didn't answer the phone. And so then she followed up minutes later with an email. And like I said, it hadn't even been, you know, just hours since my birth mom had passed away.
And my mom's comment on the email was, I'm so sorry that she has passed. I know how much she meant to you. Maybe now that she's dead, we can spend some time together.
That was the comment. And I messaged back and I said she's never the reason we haven't spent time together. So there's that. And then that was it. I didn't communicate the rest of that few weeks or however many, you know, however many weeks.
I don't know if it was, I don't know how long it was, but it, it wasn't forever. It was maybe a month or two. But I, I stayed away from communication during those weeks and months, because again, the first thing you say to me is now that she's dead, I hope we can spend some time together, when she's not the reason we weren't, you know, she, we already weren't spending time together before I reunited with her, but she's a convenient scapegoat, you know? And then when she's dead, now it's okay, now the problems are solved. No, because she wasn't the problem.
So, When my adoptive mom died, just within days of Gus, the grief is different. There's still grief, but my grief with my adoptive mom is that I will, it will never be able to be the way that I longed for it to be.
I, I've often told people behind the scenes, just close friends that know and they all see it, see it, and they agree. I say, who wants to have a bad relationship with their parent? Nobody. We all dream like, at least I know for me, I dream of having what a lot of my friends have. You know, they go out and they get their nails done with their mom and they go to lunch and they go shopping and they go to the movies and they have girl nights and they have a good time together.
And I'm like, oh my gosh. Okay. So I would love that with my mom. Who doesn't want that, who doesn't want to pick up the phone and be able to talk to their mom for hours and have this go-to, that you see so many of these other women have of this, you know, incredible fountain of support.
You know, who doesn't want that, right? So for you not to have it, something has to have happened where, there's a reason that's not happening. There's a very deep hurt there that it's not taking place.
And I know that a lot of people, not just adoptees, but other people, I have many people in my life, adoptees and non adoptees who are estranged from their parents. And I never chose to make that move. Although I have listened to your entire estrangement series and I thought about it many times. And I had every reason to, I would always keep a tie there, but many times it was a very thin tie. Almost non-existent tie, but I still kept that tie. There's many reasons for that. That's probably a book all its own.
But my grieving with my adoptive mom has been for what never will be. She's gone. It's never possible now, and I know there, there may be people that will say, well, if you would've tried hard enough when she was alive, maybe it would've been possible. I did try and many people who even know us, don't know the extent of, you know, how I did try, but I did try.
And it, it never went like I hoped it would go and prayed it would go. And now that she's dead, it will never go the way that I would pray or hope that it would go. So my grieving with her is that, wow, this is over and it's never gonna be the relationship that I dreamed it could be.
And with Gus, it's, everything you and I have just discussed and more that even in a short time, he tried so hard. You know, Hailey, you asked the question and like I said, I've never shared this publicly before, but I'm gonna share it now and hopefully this will bring some understanding and light here.
I timed at one time when I was on the phone with my adoptive mom. In 20 minutes of conversation, and she never once asked, how are you? What's happening in your world? Are you okay? What's going on in your life? 20 minutes. And that's, that wasn't uncommon.
I wouldn't walk in this door for two minutes without Gus saying, how are you today, Deanna? Like, when I was coming home from work and he hadn't seen me all day, how are you, Deanna, and are you okay hun?
And I can't even describe the joy that brought to my life. That's the number one thing I miss. And the number one thing that, you know, I didn't, I didn't have that with my, with my adoptive mom. So, that was super hard.
So I just grieve two different things. With Gus, I grieve what I had for a brief time and lost with my adoptive mother. I grieve for what I did not have for a long time and never will be.
Haley: Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Before we do our recommended resources, I love for you to tell us some of your favorite things about Gus and then also, just speak to adoptees who might not get this glowy, happy ending. Might not get this answer cuz you lived without the answers and thinking you probably might not get the answers for a decade.
Deanna Shrodes: Yeah. Things I love about Gus. Oh, oh my gosh. There's so many. Just things I love that he did, that we did together. I mean, we listened to music all the time. His favorite was Frank Sinatra. And we loved a lot of the same foods.
We loved a lot of the same music. We would listen to music all the time. I love the fact that he was a huge dreamer. I love the fact that he never gave up. He was such a big dreamer that even in his elderly years, he had this big dream, kind of like in the movie. Oh gosh, now it's zapping outta my mind. But "If you build it, they will come.".
Um, what is that movie? Kevin Costner.
Haley: Oh, field of Dreams.
Deanna Shrodes: Field of Dreams. Thank you. So he, even just a couple years before he died, had this, had this dream, he's gonna resurrect his career and he's gonna build this big dance studio in his backyard and he. He did it. He never got to see that dream come true as far as actually opening the studio.
But he was a big dreamer and he was a leader. They would tell me at the nursing home all the time, especially Charlotte, his nurse, she would say he's a triple A personality. He has real high expectations of himself and of others.
And it was just laughable. My, I had my, my team members on the team that I'm blessed to lead our last team meeting that we had before Gus passed away. I had, I had our team meeting at my house so every one of them could meet Gus. And I didn't know like how long he would be here, but I wanted everyone to have the opportunity and so all my team got to meet him and they're like, your father is so much like you. He's driven. He is a type A. He's a leader. I love seeing all that in him and just how he lived that out and how many people came out of the woodwork after I found him.
I went on social media in the Richmond, Virginia area and just blasted everywhere. This is my father. I just found him. I don't have many videos or pictures of him, cuz course he was in the nursing home. I said, I want videos. I want pictures, and I want memories.
Anybody that has them. And people came out. People came out. Students and parents. Came out of the woodwork to say he was our teacher, he was our kid's teacher, and they came with pictures and videos. And I've gotten to become very good friends with a few of them, and they tell me the stories about how driven he was and how much of a leader he was and how he impacted people's lives.
And so I just, I love hearing, I still love hearing the stories. Anybody new that I meet that has a story about him, just any, any little tidbit I treasure. So those are the things I love.
As far as adoptees who may not have this same story, I'm sure there's a lot of them that don't, because I, I've seen, everybody's told me this is like a one in a million story. And I feel sorry about that because I wish that everybody could experience it.
All I can tell you is that for so many years, I remember one day I prayed, I said, God, am I always gonna be the bridesmaid and never the bride. Because I, I helped, whether it be just, even just a little word of encouragement, all of my adoptee friends that were looking for fathers. And I didn't help every one of them on their search.
I helped a few of them tangibly on their search, but all of them that I knew that I would, you know, correspond with, I, I would at least give a word of encouragement, a prayer, something, anything to just be kind to them. And I would say, you know, God, I'm willing to help anybody out there. Like, is this ever gonna happen for me?
And I really felt like it was too late. I really felt like my time had passed. So first of all, I would say don't ever give up because I, I thought my father had to be long gone and dead and in the ground.
But for those that are still waiting for that, and it may not materialize, or I've been told by a couple friends who say, you know, the sad thing is some people do find their fathers and they don't open their arms. They, you know, they shut them out. I know it's devastating. I don't have any magic words. I can tell you that I hung on in, in prayer and just doing everything that I knew to do to be okay through those years. And I know it didn't sound like I was very successful when I was in the beginning of this talk here, talking about the low levels that I went to many times.
But I will say this, what really helped me was community. I don't know what I would've done without this community. I really don't. When I went through secondary rejection the first time, I wasn't in the adoptee community and I cried for years through that. I, yeah, it was, it was bad. And then Laura Dennis, my best friend in the adoptee community, pointed out to me that when my birth mother, when she took his name to the grave, I cried. Yes, I cried very much, but she remarked about how shorter my downward spiral lasted once I was in relationship in the adoptee community.
It, yes, I was still devastated. Yes, I still spiraled down, but it was like I had people to catch me and I didn't last in that phase for quite as long because I was in community.
And so, stay in community and push forward. Don't isolate yourself. That's the worst thing you could possibly do going through this where you're rejected or you're waiting and it doesn't seem to be panning out, staying in community is super important.
Haley: Thank you. I think that's really wise. Gosh, it's just been an honor to hear your story from your faith and Thank you.
I, my, like, my recommendation is that people follow you. You have a new website and I know you're blogging on there. You've shared so much of your story on Facebook, but I know you're writing another memoir and so, I wanna make sure people follow so they can see when that's coming out and everything.
And we kind of alluded to it, but you've had massive media coverage over these years. You were on CBS Morning, David Begnaud did a whole piece on you, and that went totally viral.
Deanna Shrodes: Yeah.
Haley: Think of millions and millions of pieces that, uh, people have seen your story.
Deanna Shrodes: It's crazy. It's crazy. And here's the thing. I wanted to savor my time with GU and all these people on social media when I was, I was posting chronically on our journey just with snippets here and there and some videos and stuff. And everybody kept saying, write a book. Write a book. And I said, I'm, I wanna savor every moment I have with Gus. All you're getting right now is sentences, paragraphs in between taking care of him.
I'm not pressing to write a book. I'm not calling anybody. I'm not doing anything about this. I'm just savoring my time with him. And then a bunch of people, evidently I didn't, I didn't even, I wasn't even really in tune with who David Begnaud was or anything like that. But a lot of people that were reading my post started sending him stuff. And that's how he, I had no idea it was a shock.
I was feeding Gus fish one night for dinner and suddenly there was a text and it was from David and he said, some people let me know about your story. And that was where it just took a life of its own. From there it was, it was a shock, cuz I wasn't planning on taking anything, any bigger or further while I still had Gus here with me, but it kind of, you know, just didn't go that way.
And that's okay. I accepted it as, you know, the Lord's plan, but, Yeah, so it did.
I'm writing at Drdeannashrodes.com now. I used to write very regularly, a couple times a week at adopteerestoration.com. All my writings are still there, and I'm not saying that I'll never, ever post again there. But since I had finished school, I had started DrDeannaShrodes.com and my plan was to write about trauma there because my dissertation was on trauma based upon my personal exper-.
No my dissertation isn't based on the personal experience, it's based on research, but it comes out of a heart for that since I had gone through these personal experiences. And I had intended on kind of going a little bigger with that direction once I finished school. And that was just kind of the way things went and where I've landed now.
But people can still follow me at adoptee restoration, but I'll be blogging a lot more and putting a lot more information out drdeannashrodes.com.
Haley: I think I shared in our last episode how much adoptee restoration meant to me. And still does. I was reading through some of the posts earlier in the week and just, I was just like, oh yeah, this is when, this is where I fell in love with Deanna.
So there's so much good stuff there.
Deanna Shrodes: And it's gonna stay there. I'm not, I'm not removing it. I'm not removing it. I just wanna add my trauma work and all of that and put it together. So I'll still be writing about adoption and being and adoptee things, but again, it's probably gonna be from the DrDeannaShrodes blog.
But I'm not removing the adoptee restoration blog. It's still there for anyone to read, and I'll still answer people from there.
Haley: Wonderful. So yes, we are gonna follow you and cheer you on as you write your newest memoir. And what did you wanna recommend to us?
Deanna Shrodes: It's a book that I absolutely adore. It's called Perpetual Child, and it's written by adoptees and compiled by Diane René Christian.
And it's just incredible. It resonated with me immediately when I read it because I've always felt like a perpetual child. I have always felt like that regarding not only my adoptive parents, but everybody pretty much, and especially in my adoptive family and the way that we're treated by social workers, adoption agencies, regarding, you know, our personal adoption. And it gets... and even strangers when you talk about adoption, you can be treated like a perpetual child and you just get sick of it. So that book has really given me a sense of, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm not alone. This really happens. This is, yeah. And just kind of understanding that we don't face this alone.
Haley: Yes. Thank you. Love reading those pieces from adoptee authors in an anthology like that. And I, you know, what I wanted to mention was the piece that aired on CBS Mornings. I was really thankful because so many times these stories, they always are like, oh, and tell us how great your adoption was and like, well, your adoptive parents think or whatever, and it's none of that.
It's all about you and Gus and it, a hundred percent. And I was like, I don't know if you advocated for that or not, but I just found that refreshing.
Deanna Shrodes: I do have to advocate for it a lot. And there's times where, man, I'm telling you, I know this is, taking things in another direction here. I'm sorry we just have so much to talk about, but with so many people calling you right now for articles, podcasts, and all that, there are times where I've had to just really put my foot down.
I had one, one media news outlet call me for an interview and they said, we really need to bring your adoptive parents into this, and if we don't, then we're gonna get a ton of questions from our readers. Our, you know, our readership will just not be able to handle that we're not bringing them up. And I said, well then I guess I'm not the person to do your article.
I really don't. They said, well, you understand that we're gonna get a ton of emails and a ton of calls as to why if we don't include them in this article. I said, so, so what? You know? And they said, well, you might get a lot of emails or calls about why. And I said, you don't think I'm used to that? I mean, really?
But yeah, it's: they're gonna be just so hurt if you don't. And I have, like I said, 95% of people have supported me, but 5% haven't. And I have gotten some crazy comments on my social media that I've had to delete even from people, sadly, people in the Christian community, which I'm a big part of. I mean, I'm a minister. But I've gotten some kooky comments from ministers about that.
Even these words from God, you know, saying, you know, things about my adoptive parents or whatnot. And I'm like, okay, delete, delete, delete. Yeah. You have to advocate for that. I couldn't completely control, I can't completely control what's gonna come out in a news article, but I can just say, if this is what you're gonna do, I don't wanna be a part of it.
Or if this is a direction you wanna head, I, I don't wanna head there. You know, and just kind of see where that lands.
Haley: Well, speaking of Perpetual child, right?
Deanna Shrodes: Yes. And I did let them know. I mean, I, I could not demand the way it was gonna go, but I did say I want this to be a story, but if, if this is what you're asking. I wanted to be a story about Gus and I not veering off to my adoptive life, and they respected it.
Haley: I, that's the kind of representation I appreciate and I'm going back to adoptee restoration. You know, you were, I think the first person that I saw who was a Christian, talking about the complexity of adoption.
And saying it like it really is. And so, of course, no surprise to me that there's still pastors commenting on your stuff inappropriately. It just sort of....
Deanna Shrodes: oh my gosh. You can't even, you can't even imagine Haley. I've lost a few friends in the process and it's, it's really okay. It's okay.
Haley: Well, I really appreciate your leadership in that area. And you know, so many of us respect and follow you. And no matter what our beliefs are, you've always stayed consistent and that is not the case for many of our leaders. So we really appreciate that. I love you. I'm so glad we got to talk today. Thank you so much for sharing with us.
Deanna Shrodes: Oh, I love you too. I love you and I'm cheering you on too, and I just love everything that you're, I love you as a person and I love everything you're producing for us.
Thank you. Thank you. You know, when I was going through the worst of my stuff in adoption, there was no Adoptees On. there was none of this. It's just, it's such a blessing that adoptees going through this today, have these resources. That we just didn't have back then, so thank you, Hailey.
Haley: Thank you. Okay, so if you wanna follow Deanna, best place is DrDeannaShrodes.com and we'll have links to all of that in the show notes for everyone.
Deanna Shrodes: Thank you.
Haley: Oh my gosh. She is just one of my favorite people. I'll just say it. I wish, maybe someday, I will have that full spirit of generosity that Deanna has. I remember when she told us about taking in her grand niece and what that looked like for her and just how natural she is. Open doors, and I just really admire that in her.
Also, I think I said last week, I really respect her vulnerability and willing to just say the hard things and you know, a lot of us have been met with family members that either have kept us a secret or have kept secrets from us, and that is so, so painful. And so if that has happened to you, I see you and I do encourage you actually to go and look up the phrase Deanna used, the spiritual bypassing, because I think a lot of us can get there. Meaning we have the hard thing, we feel like we need to forgive and move on, and it kind of like glosses over the processing part of understanding that really painful thing that happened and it was really crappy that they did that. And how can we build a safe boundary so that doesn't happen to us again and you know, move through all the steps to either forgiveness, if that's your jam or whatever, never talking to them again. Or maybe that could be a piece of forgiveness too.
So anyway, if that phrase kind of like lit something up in you definitely research more about it cuz it's a very interesting phenomenon, especially that happens in faith communities where we can often be pressured to like forgive and forget and move on.
Which can be really unhealthy. So I appreciated Deanna bringing that up. And yeah, this stuff is so hard and in a time where you're in this like beautiful reunion moment and then grief, and then finding out that people have been lying and keeping secrets from you is like, it's just, that's just not it. So.
Let's just try and be better people. Goodness. Anyway, I'm just blathering on you. I wanted to tell you one more time that we are doing transcriptions now, which is so cool. I really am excited and our goal is to always have our episode, go live with a transcription in the show notes available for accessibility, and we're also working on the entire back catalog and there's over 240 episodes now.
So we have a long ways to go and it's a huge project and it also is really expensive to pay for all the time to do that transcribing. So if you're able to, we would really appreciate just a one-time gift is so meaningful. AdopteesOn.com. There's a PayPal button.
Or if you wanna join us for our off-script podcast episodes on Mondays or our book club, we're reading Invisible Boy by Harrison Mooney right now, which is so good, and we're gonna have a live event with him in May.
So if you wanna join that and Patreon is a great way to contribute to the costs of funding the podcast as well. So adopteeson.com/community has info for that. And thank you so much for listening. Next week on the pod is Mary Gauthier, the icon. Yes, very, very excited to chat with Mary and share that conversation with you.
Thanks for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
