250 [Healing Series] Pet Loss and Grief
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Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/250
Haley Radke: This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You're listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. If you've been around the show for a while, you may remember. Almost exactly one year ago, I said goodbye to my best little furry friend, Lucy. She was 16 and had been with me almost my entire adult life.
I had so many people reach out during that time. When I was grieving, who had also lost a pet companion, and so we started this conversation as a community about how especially weighty the grief can be for an adopted person. Today's guest is Laura Summers, an adoptee and therapist, and we are talking about how pet loss is a form of disenfranchised.
Laura holds my hand figuratively through this challenging conversation about how dear our pets can become to us, and she teaches us how we can move through grief in a way that honours ourselves and our pets instead of trying to get to a finish line of feeling, quote unquote, fine. This may be a hard conversation to listen to as we talk about choosing euthanasia and some other challenging topics.
So please take care when deciding whether or not this is the episode for you today. Before we get started, I wanted to personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today on adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world. We wrap up with some recommended resources for you today, and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about are on the website, AdopteesOn.com.
Let's listen in.
I am so pleased to welcome to adoptees on Laura Summers. Hi Laura.
Laura Summers: Hi Haley. I'm so glad to be here.
Haley Radke: I'm so glad too. Do you know we share a name? I have Laura as my second name.
Laura Summers: Oh, wow. I did not know that. That's cool.
Haley Radke: How about that? So you are an adoptee who's also a therapist, and I was wondering if you could share a little bit of your story with us?
Laura Summers: Yeah, absolutely. I was adopted in a closed domestic adoption. My adoptive parents struggled like many other adoptive parents within infertility and sought adoption for a child. And then I'm also one of those people that ha they became pregnant once they discovered, they already had discovered they were adopting.
And so my sister is actually seven months younger than I am, and she's their biological child. And so they went from zero kids to basically twins. And so that's the adoption story. My adopt, my adoption remains closed. It was in the state of Oklahoma and I'm, that's not one of the states right now that I think is opening up records.
But I'm fortunate enough to have been in a really great reunion process and I'm now entered year four and have a great relationship with my first mom, and she has two kids from a subsequent relationship. So I have half-brothers also.
Haley Radke: Okay. I have lots of things I wanna ask you about that, but I we're talking about something different today.
Laura Summers: Yes.
Haley Radke: And you and I also have in common that we've lost some of our dear beloved pets.
Laura Summers: Yes.
Haley Radke: Why don't you share? Do you, did you have animals growing up? I grew up with two different dogs. Let me go first. I, we had a blue healer when I was really little, who was a grouchy old dog and died when I was five or six.
So do not have fond memories of that dog. And then after that we got a dog named Barney who was, I think a terrier poodle cross.
Laura Summers: Oh wow. That's a lot of energy.
Haley Radke: Yeah, he was pretty low-key actually. Okay, good. We adopted him from the S P C A at the time. Now it's Humane Society in our city, but he was I think three when we got him. So he had a few bad habits, but yeah, he was my buddy. And when I went off to college, He was still alive and he died when I was away. I didn't really, I don't know. It wasn't the same. And so then we subsequently to that, Nick and I, my husband, we got Lucy. And she died a year ago. So Lucy was a Pomeranian shi tsu cross, and my first dog of my own.
Laura Summers: Those are so precious. Yeah.
Haley Radke: How about you?
Laura Summers: Very similar. We grew up with golden retrievers. My dad's a huge dog person, and so he was the one who would seek out dogs. We always had animals around in the house. And actually when I was younger, I liked cats, I think more than dogs. So I have a heart for both.
I think they're both, all those animals are precious and when I set out on my own, I ended up with two cats for my college roommates that nobody could really take them where they were going. So I had two cats for a while and I was resisting getting a dog. And my sweet cousin, who is also a huge animal lover, she, I think she had a couple people at her work find this dog in the park.
Somebody had left her chain to a park bench and she was a Jack Russell Beagle mix. She mostly looked like a Jack Russell. My cousin dropped her off at my house and she said, you need a dog. Oh, she was right. I did need a dog and I named her Penny and that was my first dog. And that's, let me tell you, Jack Russell is quite the introduction to your own dog. It's a lot of. It's a lot of energy.
Haley Radke: Slash beagle. Beagles are wild. Wow. Okay. I wanted to name Lucy Penny.
Laura Summers: Yeah.
Haley Radke: And Nick refused. So you had the penny. Oh.
Laura Summers: I had the Penny. Yeah, I know they're, she was the best, she was wild. I'm, but in a fun way, in a very mischievous way, and I feel like. Animals are just they just teach us so many things. And I think especially those animals we get once we've gone out on our own, because they're, there are, it's almost, it's like chosen family, right? Like they're ours. And so I had Penny, and then over the years I have I later adopted two pit bulls.
We're pretty sure the people that were selling them were potentially going to fight them. The ones that didn't sell. And I ended up with Gunner and Umma and they were brother and sister. And I now have another dog, Winnie. She's wild. If you follow me on social media, you'll like, that's seriously almost all I post anymore pictures of my dog because. She's just cute and they're just precious. So I am obviously now a huge crazy dog lady and I fully embraced it.
Haley Radke: I did go back on your Instagram and your very first picture on Instagram. Yes, girl, way back. It's a dog.
Laura Summers: It is. Yep.
Haley Radke: Oh, okay. I love what you talked about. If it's our dog that we, or a pet that we got when we're first out on our own. And I think, I don't know, this is not applied to all adopted people, but while I've been trying to explain to my husband why we need to get another dog, I said to him, I'm like, she's been the one that has been with me this whole time.
I was never alone cuz I had her. I already warned you before we started recording that I was gonna cry today. And so here it comes. And he was like you know it's okay to be alone. I was like, says you. Which one of us was alone for the first 10 days of their life? Thank you very much, sir.
Laura Summers: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Anyway, do you have thoughts on. Having pets as adoptees. And what is special about that versus the, of course all humans enjoy, some humans may enjoy their pets and have of course, a special relationship with them. Talk specifically about us.
Laura Summers: Yeah. I just think animals. Of relate to us in a non-verbal way. And I was trying to think about having this conversation and what is it about that non-verbal communication that we share with animals. And I think for me, there's almost like a mirroring going on with your animals. You don't have to have the right words, you don't have to explain what's happening. A lot of times they just know and.
We, a lot of us don't have that in our life. We don't have that kind of relationship with a another person. So having that in an animal, it's just so powerful and special. And I understand completely that desire that you have to want that back probably in a way, right? To have another relationship to that in that way with an animal, because, Relationships are really hard and it's just so nice to have that like safe place to land.
Haley Radke: And that piece of the unconditional love is so amazing. And to have somebody, some, something, think you're the best is pretty awesome because I don't know, I constantly feel like I'm disappointing people. And I didn't disappoint my dog. She was here for it. In fact, she was with me through pretty much every single recording of the show ever and her little collar jingles. And later when she was sick, her dog coughs. Yeah. So she has she was, the presence was even in the show. And I remember thinking after she passed, I'm like, oh, I wish I had collected all of those noises so I could, put them together for me somewhere. I don't know what, but for people who audio is important, I was like, oh, I'll, I don't hear that again.
Laura Summers: Yeah. We were talking about having this conversation, I know I had messaged you that I think another piece of not only is having pets important to us, but I think their loss hits us in such a different way. And I think it's because pet loss is really another kind of disenfranchised grief, and so much of our society is based on this idea that we just need to pick it up and move on.
A lot of us have had that experience around our adoption, right? Okay, it's over now. Let's just onto the next thing. And so to have that kind of loss. And it's like another layer. And I think it's also we've lost someone who we love and who's important to us, and we know that's at the core of adoption for us as adoptees.
Haley Radke: So let's unpack disenfranchise grief that term for folks who may not have heard it before. Because a part of grieving, say you lose your mother, for most people, if their mother dies, everyone's oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. It's a big thing. They may come and bring support to your door. You may get casserole. Now or adoptees who did lose our mothers when we were relinquished at first, but we may not get that same acknowledgement Anyway. You just tell us a little bit more about what disenfranchised grief is.
Laura Summers: Yeah. You're nailing it, right? Like I think a lot of, for adopted parents, adoption is joy and and those are the people that, initiate the adoption a lot of times and are kind of, the adoption is centered around, people are celebrating that. And so disenfranchised grief is really a type of grief that can be invisible to other people, but also just not recognized as a society and also even within ourselves. And I think that's something that I'm recognizing even now at 38, almost 39, that wow, I, how much space have I given myself?
To see this grief and to honor that and leave space for that and not have to put on this happy face and, be okay all the time.
Haley Radke: And so pet loss as a disenfranchised grief, I think we would see that not just for adoptees, but for anyone .And, especially for people who don't have pets and don't get it, or oh, sorry, your cat died. Like it's just this one-off kind of thing, and they just don't see the deep impact it's had on you. And in fact, when Lucy died, I was a disaster for quite a while. I think I put the show on every other week for a month or two. Because I just couldn't, I just couldn't function. I couldn't get it together.
And I was really suffering. And the people that showed up, I had a couple of, in real life people show up for me, but were my adoptee friends. Yes, I got flowers from one of my friends who's an adoptee therapist. She literally sent me flowers to my house. One of my friends sent me a mug with Lucy's photo on it.
I got a book about pet grief from another friend. I got several cards and so many kind messages and things and then in private people were messaging me about their own pet losses and the strange things, quote unquote strange things they had done when their pets had. My, my inbox was like a confessional.
Laura Summers: Wow.
Haley Radke: Like I started sleeping with my pet's toys and I collected pet fur and I wouldn't wash their, one of their blankets like it's a smell. Like different people were sending me all these. Whoa. Okay. I'm not, I'm feeling a little more normal that this huge feeling is so like over.
Laura Summers: It's so hard. Yeah. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Yeah. What was it like for you when your first pet of your own died?
Laura Summers: Oh, it's still really hard to think about, and it was actually the month before my husband and I got married. And Penny was, I think she was 10, not quite 10, and it was so sudden she just got really sick out of nowhere, immediately had to go to the emergency, the emergency hospital and stay.
And so it was March, 2017 and I just remember. It was such a shock, and I wasn't ready for that. I think sometimes, just like any other loss and illness you have, you might have time. If it's a prolonged thing, you might have some time to really think about what was happening. And I didn't get that.
And we were planning our wedding and about to do that, and so it was just so overwhelming. But I got a sense when she died, I was there, when they put her down, we, I had chosen to be there, both my husband and I were there, and I just got this sense, the second that they had said that she had passed I got, I was still profoundly sad and crying and all of that.
Of course. And I also got a sense like, she's free, and she's happy where she is and safe. I know this might be strange to say, but it almost felt like a relief to me that I could experience that saying goodbye, rather than having to do what we've done in our lives and pretend like I'm gonna be okay and pretend like this is okay, and oh, everyone else seems okay, so I'm gonna put a smile on. I didn't have to do that in that situation and that, that felt like a gift to me in a way. You know.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Laura Summers: There's something about grief that just feels, it's so profoundly painful, but it's not a pointless kind of pain. It's purposeful in a way, and especially when it's with someone who we've had such a deep connection with and important relationship with, there's a ritual to grief. I think we need that more in our lives. We need space for that.
Haley Radke: Yeah. I really, ugh, I really wanna talk more about that because I really thought I'd be ready to talk with you about this. I remember when Lucy died. I'm pretty sure you were one of the people that sent encouraging words to me and then, midway through last year, maybe Gunner died and I was like, oh, no, I, so I messaged you.
And so I don't remember exactly when we first started talking about doing a show on this topic. And I, at first I was just like, Girl, I'm not ready. Nope. But at some point.
Laura Summers: I don't know if we're ever ready. It's just so hard. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Yeah. When you're talking about Penny and making the decision to euthanize even in a, like a kind of a surprise medical sitation, for me, Lucy was 16. Which is old AF for a dog, and she had health issues and I literally was telling myself for months, like the time is coming, and I really was mapping out how I would tell my kids and all of those things.
And at some point, there was a couple different steps along the way to decide that she was, it was more, I was letting her live and suffer for me and it was not kind anymore. And to come, oh God .
Laura Summers: There's not a worst decision to have to make than that. There's just. That's the worst kind of decision. And I think that's how, obviously most of us I think, have to do that with our pets sometime. And for an adoptee to do that, that's ju like my heart hurts, remembering that kind of decision that we make. And I also know there's kindness in it. It's just so hard to hold both of those things and remember that when you're doing it because you're... I was so all encompassed with, I'm just gonna miss this presence in my life so much.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah. I think having the grief out front, I feel like I've tried to lead with that. All aspects of the things I do to the point where, okay, one of my kids last week told me, he's oh my gosh, mom, are you just like trying to depress us or what? Because I kept saying something like, everybody is going to die eventually.
And I talk about death a lot. We talk about grieving. I used to say I still sometimes say, I'm like, I think I could work at a funeral home. I'm good with death and yet this is so profound that the loss of Lucy and telling my kids. We, after school, I was like, okay, today you're, we're gonna say bye to Lucy.
And then those few weeks after where I was really a mess and I just kept saying to them like, crying is okay. I'm feeling sad about Lucy. And I kept trying to say out loud every time I was feeling it. So that, to model for them, and I feel like I maybe was leading with trying to show them the healthy example of what it looks like, but not necessarily processing it all the way.
Do you have thoughts on that? For, this is all intermingled, right?
Laura Summers: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Thoughts on adoption grief. Oh yeah. And coming to terms with what we've lost. And actually processing that and not doing the spiritual bypassing kind of thing. And then as well, with this loss, like I said, I thought I'd be okay to talk about this today. I didn't know I had such big feelings and we're a year out and maybe this is what grief is gonna look like for me for a long time.
Laura Summers: I think what you're going through is, honestly, I know, I'm the queen of needing in my personal life, I'm certainly the queen of everything. I can hold it together. Let's keep it together. Especially as moms, right? Like we wanna do that around our kids. There's that expectation we put on ourselves, and I think society puts on us.
But I think, like I was saying, like grief, there's the quote, there's a quote from this book I told you about, and actually I got as a recommendation from our fellow adoptee, Lisa Olivera. She had this on her page. It's called The Wild Edge of Sorrow, and it's an incredible book. The subtitle is Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief. And it's by Francis Weller, who is himself a therapist and specializes in grief.
And one of the things that he talks about is when survivors aren't allowed sufficient time to grieve, however that looks like, the wounds can close too soon and they remain infected and never heal.
And I, yeah, to me, I'm like, uhhuh. Ding ding. What have we been expected to do our whole lives, is close that wound up, just take it in. And wounds need air, right? Wounds need time. Wounds need support to heal. And so much of the adoptee experience as it has been has for me is, you're on your own with this one.
Swallow it down, take care of it, pull up your bootstraps, whatever that looks like. And just, you need to be, just be okay. And I can understand as far as life goes, that there's some truth to that. That there are certain amounts of self-care that we wanna keep going and keep doing for ourselves.
But I think the reality is that grief, it's like a, it's like pressing pause on life for a lot of us, right? When we're in it, it's so all-encompassing. It can almost feel like another life. Sometimes. I think for some people it can, I know lead to depression and just really overtake them and we've pathologized that so much, right?
We've made that, there's something wrong with you. And I think the reality is, if we as a society and if we as a community at large, were better at making space for those, that deep, profound feeling of grief, it wouldn't need to be prolonged in the way that it is for a lot of us because we would feel safe and held by the people around us and we would've been given permission to feel.
And I actually love those rituals you were talking about, right? Like people were talking about, I sleep with the toy, or I collect the hair, or I watch the videos back over and over. I think that's part of that space that they're giving themselves that they probably haven't, many of them hadn't had in their life with that other first profound loss.
Haley Radke: It really did come across as these. Don't tell anybody I did this.
Laura Summers: Yeah.
Haley Radke: But this is something I did and it helped me feel better. I don't know if that'll help you. Yeah. It was there very much that vibe, like embarrassed and, yeah. I remember like googling, so I'm like, what do people do when their pets die?
What are some of the things? And one of the things we did as a family is we got like a memorial stone for Lucy. I'll show it to you. And yet I have not been able to put it in our yard. It just sits on our coffee table in the living room. And yeah it's one of those things where I'm like, oh, I know. I guess I have to wait for the next step. When will that be right to put it in the yard when I might not see it every day.
Do you have other thoughts or ideas of things that are rituals that we could do that are more, I don't know, it doesn't have to be formalized. But just some examples of ideas, things that people could could do that might help.
Laura Summers: Yeah, I think. Those memories are precious. I don't, I think a lot of times when we think about going back over memories with our pets that we've lost that some people can see it as perseverating or like you're drawing out that grief rather than it being seen as a ritual. And I think it should be seen as a sacred ritual for the memories or why they're part of us in every way and they were part of our pets and our relationship.
And so it's okay to go back through those photos and those videos and really remember what that felt like to have your pet with you and to honor that relationship. I think that's really important.
I think honestly, Haley. Crying is a ritual. It's not a fun one.
Haley Radke: I'm very good at that. Very good. Yeah, poster child.
Laura Summers: I think crying can be a ritual and just like the physical, acknowledging the physical feelings, the physical aspect of that pain. Crying probably by ourselves. Most of us are probably most comfortable crying alone. But also crying to people that we trust and like allowing someone else to hold that feeling with us can be a really important ritual, but also very difficult for most of us, I think. And I just think that can look like whatever, if there's a song or a music that reminds you of your pet, really listening to that.
And looking for, I think for me, the way I've thought about it, I've actually, okay. So I lost Penny two years later I ended up losing my dog Umma, and then last year I lost Gunner. So I lost three dogs in the span of five years. And that was a lot. And it doesn't get easier every time. It doesn't.
But I do think as I've gone through each of those experiences I've been reminded of that feeling that I was talking about when Penny passed, where it's like, just a knowing that I'm holding. And I'm not a religious person, so to me it's not connected to anything religious or organized in that way. To me, it's more, I just had this knowing that they're okay and they're safe, and I think for me, I noticed a difference between like staying in the pain part of grief versus honoring them.
There's a, there feels like a difference to me. So I look for that. I look for what is the ritual I can do to make me feel connected to them and reminded of that bond that we had, and that will look different for everyone, definitely for me, looking at pictures. I've kept, I haven't even been able to get rid of his, like food bin and stuff that we had in the laundry room. I can't do it. So I totally understand you not being able to move the rock. I can't do it.
Haley Radke: Oh okay. Here's my next, her baddest in the front hall closet.
Laura Summers: Yep. Yep. Yeah. And it's, that's where it belongs right now, right? I know for sure that the way that we feel doesn't stay the same, but anniversaries are hard.
Haley, you know that, right? Like you're so close to an anniversary right now, expect to be upset around an anniversary. That's just normal. That's part of the ritual of what that pet meant to you.
Haley Radke: So I think for a lot of people, after they lose a pet, one of the questions we'll get is, oh, are you gonna get another dog? Oh, are you gonna get another cat?
And I don't necessarily want to talk about that as a because I don't think it's per it shouldn't be prescriptive. Like you should definitely fill that void. No. Let's just do the grieving and not just skip over that.
Do you have thoughts on how to respond to those kinds of questions? Or thoughts on having another pet?
So you had multiple dogs, I think when your dogs passa, you still had somebody there. I don't know. Any thoughts on that, Laura?
Laura Summers: Yeah, so I actually did get another dog really soon after Umma died, and part of the reason, almost 90% of the reason I did that was because Gunner, who was still with us had never been alone. And I was really worried. He did not have the type of personality where he could be an only dog. I think some dogs are better at that than others. So I ended up like doing what you're not supposed to do, quote unquote, and getting a dog for my dog, which is what Winnie was originally.
And so it ended up working out really well. He lived until almost 12 and I really think that he, it extended his life and it's just. But I, it definitely didn't erase the pain and it may be provided a distraction from time to time, but in no way made things, I think easier. And I think that's something probably to keep in the back of your mind if you do wanna get another pet because you're having a hard time, that it may not take away that grief and pain for you in the way you might hope it would.
But yeah, you're right. There are so many different reasons to get another animal and we don't wanna assume we know what works for someone else, right? Depending on like where they're at in their life and what's going on. So I think that's such a personal thing and whatever bond you form with that new animal will be its own thing.
Haley Radke: I was looking up tips online for that and cuz truly as a family, we're not ready yet for another dog. But it's so funny when you Google like tips for the next dog and stuff, and one of the things was having this expectation that your next pet is going to be like your, the one that you lost.
And so they were talking about, get a dog that looks different or try a different breed. Breed or at least have different coloring or something. So you're not like naturally associating your beloved personality of the last one onto the new one. And I was like, oh, that's wise cuz we, they just can't be replaced.
I think that's another fear for getting another pet is oh, what if this one sucks compared to my last one?
Laura Summers: Yeah. Yeah.
Haley Radke: I'm laughing about that, but it's truly It is. That's real.
Laura Summers: It is. I think that's why I can understand like that not being ready feeling is probably associated with that desire, that natural desire that all of us have when we lose a pet that we want our pet to be, we wanna bring that pet back. Just miss them. And you want that connection again.
And I also see so many parallels here to adoption loss, right? And I think that sort of searching we do as adoptees, Tthatat first loss with our first families. We do searching without really formally searching. A lot of us. Where we, I've heard so many adoptee say, oh, I'm like looking at people's spaces and crowds and looking for similarities, and I think there's that part of grief, especially a prolonged grief that we hold, that we start doing those things without knowing we're doing them. And I know that we do that with our pets too.
I can speak for myself. I. I think there was a, there was something in me that was making my animals and still probably does almost like the, a physical form of the ch of my child's self. Like my younger, innocent self. And I couldn't, it's so hard, like when we talk about like parts work, right? Like in that internal family systems thing where we're, we are trying to acknowledge and talk to our younger selves.
For me, I think I had almost embodied my younger self in my dogs. And, but that sounds probably really woowoo right now. But there's just such an innocence to animals that I don't really know if I was allowed to have as a child because so much was happening around me and I had to grow up so fast. So my dog was a safe space for my inner child, I think, and really getting to see and hold and touch that, that part of myself and that innocence in a way that just felt really important and precious.
Haley Radke: I love thinking about that. That is, oh, that's such a gift. It's.
Laura Summers: Yeah.
Haley Radke: That's really special. When I was doing your, my Instagram deep dive of you and listening to your podcast and doing all. I saw this line that you wrote. You said: There is no ease in adoption. And I thought, oh yeah, that's really good.
And when you're talking about this intermingling of, disenfranchised grief with pets and adoption and how interconnected they are, I can really see the depth of pain. This would like, of course this would cause me a lot of pain. Of course it would cause you a lot of pain and our fellow adoptees who've gone through something similar.
I'm curious if you have thoughts on this. There's no ease in adoption because this building out connection with our furry friends I think comes with ease like and how amazing that connection is. What do you think?
Laura Summers: Yeah, I think when I was talking about ease and adoption, I, using that word, I was thinking about that larger system and narrative of adoption and that.
That this assumption, that adoption is a safe place for us as kids, and that it's a, it's a, an ending to the bad part, quote, unquote, of our stories. So many people assume we come into adoption as children in really terrible situations, and I, you've done incredible work on over the years of really trying to challenge that idea that, This isn't a like finality here, right?
Where people life keeps moving and really what we're talking about today, grief is not ever fully over. It's just not. And, but there's an expectation that it is. And so this idea that people think that adoption is like a solution really in any way, in any form is not true. And. Being adopted is not easy.
Any day of our lives, there is always something we're confronting and holding, and I think we get moments right. We get moments where we might get some ease, but the system of adoption and the narrative around adoption is not what provides that for us.
Haley Radke: Any nice things to say about pets?
Laura Summers: But pets can, pets do. Pets can provide some of that, right? Pets get to be an oasis, I think from the expectations that humans put on us, right? And. It's a chance to be who we are in our total, in that, in all its totality and not be who we're expected to be. They're literally excited when we go outside to take the trash out and come back in.
Like you said, there's not another person or thing in this world that I think it's that excited. Maybe my almost two year old, he's, he has some of that for me right now, but yeah, that's a, that. That's a gift that they give us.
Haley Radke: I remember in the last couple years of Lucy's life she had she was in pain, like she couldn't do the stairs. She couldn't jump up anymore, just elderly dog problems. And so I would just carry her from room to room because she still wanted to be where I was.
Laura Summers: Course.
Haley Radke: It didn't matter what I was doing, and all she was gonna do was sleep there. But yeah, the excitement she had still had to just like sleep by my feet. Great. Ugh, dogs are so special.
Laura Summers: They're the best.
Haley Radke: You know what cat people, you're welcome here too. That's fine.
Laura Summers: Absolutely. Cats can fulfill all of the things I think that we're talking about. For us for that too. They're just as special.
Haley Radke: My son Griffin loves cats and he would love it if we were a cat family. So anyway. Do you have any last thoughts on this for us before we do some recommended resource?
Laura Summers: I think I just want people to know adoptees, especially to know that it's okay if you don't feel okay. It's okay if it still hurts a year, five years, 10 years down the road. That's not something you're doing wrong, and your grief is part of what's connecting you to this world, even if it's hard. It's a, it's an important reminder of how loved you are as a person, I think, and how loved your pet was. I think grief in a way can really be a connecting point for us.
Haley Radke: Do you have a funny story about any of your dogs?
Laura Summers: Oh man, I have so many. Okay, so Penny, cuz she was really my first dog. I like to refer to her as, oh, like Mick Jagger in dog form. She was just a rock, like a rock star She lived really hard. She partied a lot, the first month I had her, she was a really good jumper cuz Jack Russells usually are. She jumped onto my counter and ate an entire bag of chocolate chips.
It was about 16 ounces and lived to tell the tail. Let's see. She could climb trees, so that was fun. I've actually now had two dogs that can climb trees. Winnie is the other one. So that's been, that was scary at times. We would have 30, a dog, 30 feet in the air trying to get her. Yeah, actually that's a funny Winnie story.
So in our previous home in Texas, we had a live oak tree, which if you've ever seen them, the branches come down as they get bigger. So it meant made for a really great climbing tree. And I was pregnant with my son at the time and she decided it was a great day to go get the squirrels living up there and climbed 30 feet in the air.
And I actually had to call the fire department to come get her because I couldn't get her down. So the fire department comes into my backyard with their cell phones out filming this thing, and one of them said, we don't come for cats anymore because we just tell people cats will come down eventually, they'll be fine. But we've never really gotten a call for getting a dog out of a tree.
So I came and they got the ladder up and she was terrified. She was just like frozen up there. And the second this buff, cute firefighter had her in her arms, her little tail started wagging. She was so happy. She got rescued.
Haley Radke: Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Amazing. Okay. My story about Lucy, she was very much a princess dog. If it was raining or snowing, Did not wanna go outside. I live in Canada, Laura, and it is raining today in reflection of this mood of our conversation. And if it wasn't this, it's snowing. So I remember when she was maybe like a year old and she just struggled going out in the snow. And so I bought her those little booties, so to cover her little princess feet. And the first time we put the booties on, it was like, I'm sure you've seen videos of this on Instagram or TikTok where they walk like a new baby deer and they don't know what to do with their legs. She, her legs are going up every which way. Oh my gosh. It was so amazing. I love that. Yeah. I'll never forget that.
Laura Summers: That's the best. It's like they're swimming on land.
Haley Radke: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Oh dear. Oh, furry friends. Okay. What do you wanna recommend to us today?
Laura Summers: Yeah, so that book I talked about is incredible, The Wild Edge of Sorrow. If you want to read more about, I think Disenfranchised Grief, there's another book that I think has been recommended before on your podcast, Ambiguous Loss, which is another really great resource for like a different way to think about loss and grief. In particular when it relates to adoption and also pet loss like we talked about. They can be both disenfranchised in that way. So that's a really, another really great book.
Yeah, and just your podcast, Haley. Like not feeling alone in these feelings. Looking for other people that might share, that get it, that understand this. Those people are precious as you know in your life. And so important.
Haley Radke: Absolutely. Community is where it's at. And speaking of you and Katie Gagel started your own podcast, Adopting Wellness, and I love how you're really sharing the real, just like you did today.
But it's so nice to hear people just saying yeah, this is my goal. Yeah, I didn't need it. This part was hard. I'm trying, really trying to work on this, you're just like very real. So I love that. In your first episode with a guest you were talking about organization and how that works for you or doesn't work for you.
And I love the premise of your podcast, talking about seeking out wellness and that it's, I don't know, you know how people are just like, I need to do this, and this, and then everything will be great. We just never come to that point. Exactly. If only, so I love this. I think we share this idea of; we're always moving, hopefully in the direction of mental wellness and whatever that looks like in our own lives. And I think you and Katie do a really good job of helping push us forward just a little bit in a very healthy, normal sort of way, and not making outrageous claims of, here, this is gonna fix you.
Laura Summers: No, for sure. We don't have the answers. We're just wanting to remind people that everyone's human and we're really just, all we can do is do our best and try. And I think that even just getting to that place, Haley, is so hard. It's so hard to get to a place where we even want to, or can feel like we can take care of ourselves.
And It sounds really cheesy, but like honoring the journey, like for real. Like really just trying to be there in it and not be somewhere else, which a lot of us spend so much of our lives trying to escape and just be someone or anywhere else than where we are.
Haley Radke: Yep. I really appreciate that, being real. That's the good stuff. Okay. Where can we connect with you and where can we find your new podcast?
Laura Summers: Yeah, so I, my personal account on Instagram is public and I share writing and other things related to that. And it's, LauraIsALot on Instagram.
Haley Radke: And pet pictures.
Laura Summers: Yep. And lots of pet pictures If you are into that. And I, my professional website where you can connect with me as an adoptee therapist is LauraSummersLMFT.com and Katie and I's instagram for the podcast is AdoptingWellnesspod on Instagram.
I love connecting with other adoptees. I truly value community. And Haley, I just wanna thank you so much for that community that you've built and being such a trailblazer in the podcasting community for adoptees and helping us find each other. So thank you for that.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much. Thanks for holding my hand today. Oh, virtually.
Laura Summers: Right there with ya. I'm with ya.
Haley Radke: Alright. Was so good to talk with you and I hope I get to pet your dog someday.
Laura Summers: Yes. Same. I hope I get to see if your family gets a new dog. I hope we all get to celebrate in that with you and watch that new relationship.
Haley Radke: Imagine.
Laura Summers: Imagine.
Haley Radke: The dog content.
Laura Summers: It will be so great.
Haley Radke: Yes. Thank you.
(Upbeat Music)
Haley Radke: I didn't know if I was gonna make it through that conversation, even recording my introduction for you today. Writing it, I was fine. Fine. And then when I went to record, I was like, oh no, am I gonna cry again? It just. I don't know. I hope it helps someone, maybe you if you know that I still am so deeply sad about losing Lucy and it's okay.
I think I am gonna be like this for a while and I've had some really lovely coincidental maybe experiences with neighborhood dogs lately that have brought me so much joy and I feel really lucky to still get to engage with dogs here and there through my day. Even just walking to and from school with my kids and I don't know.
I take those moments and I think. I'm thankful for those joyful moments and I think back to Lucy often and how much joy she brought our family. And so I hope that being this raw with you will yeah. Let you know that it's okay if you're still sad that your cat died five years ago and if you're still, if you still have your dog's toys from seven years ago or whatever you felt like this was a weird thing. It's just a normal thing. Yeah. I hope you know you're not alone.
Anyway, I am thankful for our community. And I'm thankful to each one of you who messaged me what I was like in bed four days and told me about all the quirky things that you have done to feel nearer to your dear ones.
And I I really appreciated that and continue to appreciate that. So thank you.
I also wanna give a quick. We have raised to this point, I think $2,000 towards our goal of $20,000 for the transcription project of the entire back catalog of Adoptees On. And so if you wanna participate in that program or know a little bit more about it, You can go to adopteeson.com/donate and see where we are today.
Maybe we're a little bit higher than that when you listen to this, but I wanna thank all the donors who've already given generously. I really appreciate it, and I know having adoptees on episodes like this one more accessible for many adoptees will be really helpful. So thank you.
Adopteeson.com/donate for the transcription project.
Adopteeson.com/partner, if you wanna sign up for monthly giving and join us for our live book clubs and other fun events. We would love to have you over there. Thank you so much for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
