254 [Healing Series] Adoptee Superpowers
/Haley Radke: This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our healing series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee.
Today we are talking with Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker about adoptee superpowers. Don't worry, we are not going to express gratitude for a traumatic experience over here. It's more about understanding what are some common traits we hold and how we can embrace and make use of them to our advantage. Before we get started, I wanted to invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today over on adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today or on the website, adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I am so pleased to welcome back to adoptees on Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker. How are you?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I'm good, Haley. Thank you so much for having me back.
Haley Radke: I was like looking through my website to be like, when were you on last? Yeah. It's been a while. Yeah.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I know it Pandemic time got wonky, right? It's oh, it was just a few months ago, right?
Oh, no. Two years ago.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, now you're a whole author and everything. You've been busy. Yeah.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: That's what I did during my downtime. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Just wrote some books. No big deal. Yeah. For folks that are new to you, can you just introduce yourself tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you're an adoptee and an adoptive parent and an adoptee therapist, so you've got all the titles, but we'd love to get to know you a little more.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Sure. Yeah, so as Haley said I jokingly call that my trifecta perspective, that I was adopted from India as an infant, and I'm an adoptive parent to a kiddo from Ethiopia. And then I'm also a psychologist who specializes in adoption. So I have a private practice based in Denver, but fortunately I'm able to see clients and over half the states in the United States. So that's been great. So yeah, it's just been amazing to be able to tie all of those pieces together in supporting the adoption community. And I think it, it gives a unique perspective because I definitely view my clinical lens through the adoptee lens. And so things like, creating the National Adoptee Therapist Directory that's something that I was very sure needed to be just adoptee therapists, not other people in the constellation who are therapists. And so things that I think just give me kind of that insight into what adoptees really need.
Haley Radke: I love that you said that cuz I was gonna bring it up. You know that list that everybody sends around when they're looking for an adoptee therapist? Chaitra made that. So thank you. I use it all the time and I also tell people, because lots of time, we'll just go a little sidetrack here.
Lots of times folks will email clinicians on that list and they may be booked up, but it's also a great way to be like, okay, your booked, but who in your area is also an expert that you trust that you could refer me to? So that's kind of like how I recommend people use it sometimes.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really smart way to go about it cuz there are, I mean the list is growing every day. I think it's all but two states that have someone listed, so that's pretty amazing. And yeah, there still are not enough of us but there are. Clinicians we trust in our local areas that maybe they're an adoptees, but we know that they're adoption informed. So I think that's a really good way to go about it.
And I wish that I had the time and space to make the list international, but fortunately, ICAV, Intercountry Adoptees Voices, they have an international list on their website that's growing. So I have that listed on the directory too, in case people are looking internationally.
Haley Radke: Awesome. I did not know that. I will have to look at that.
I was just talking with a Canadian adoptee therapist and I was like, we gotta get the Canadian list going. So perfect. Maybe someone's already doing that. Great. Wonderful. Okay, one of the things that I love about you is how you are able to reframe things for us on a regular basis, so as to help us look on the more positive side.
And I know that you see so many different clients and you've worked with adoptees for years and years, and so you have this really. Amazing insight into all the great things that have come out of a not great situation for adopted people. So I don't know if you wanna reframe it at all for us, but we're talking about adoptee superpowers today.
And that's the piece I struggle with, right? I'm like, okay, so these are good things, but we have to acknowledge that they come from a place of trauma. So what do you wanna say about that to us?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. Oh, so much. Yeah. I mean, in general, I think it's absolutely true. We're coming from a place of trauma and separation and loss and grief and so many things that non adoptees just can't even fathom.
And that's partly why I think we are some of the strongest people on earth. And we've gone through so much and many of us at very young ages that to survive that, I mean, there's inherent strength and resilience in that. But I also think weirdly enough, there's a benefit or a silver lining to the fact that we have some idea of where our trauma is coming from.
Whereas, I mean, I think there are all kinds of people in the world walking around with trauma and attachment injuries who aren't really aware of it or don't understand where it's rooted because it's not as clear cut. So at least we have some idea where it's rooted and kind of how to work with it and.
Like anything else, things are on a continuum and so something that in one situation may be viewed as a trauma reaction, there are other situations where it could be an asset and it can be really useful to us, and it's probably why we're here today because we were able to use it in an adaptive way.
So I think it's important for us not to minimize our strengths and still acknowledge that they absolutely grew from something that was unfair and we shouldn't have had to go through. But it doesn't mean that suffering is the only outcome that can come from that, that we can take something from it and use it to our benefit as well.
Haley Radke: So the first thing that comes to mind for me is a huge piece of my personality, which I think is why I have been able to be an interviewer, is this empathy I have. And, sad face for me to learn that, oh, maybe that comes from being hypervigilant and so. That's not great. Thoughts on that? Do you think that's accurate? Is that the tie there?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Absolutely, and I mean, that's exactly it, right? That there are downsides to that. That empathy can be something that leads to, on one end of the spectrum, people pleasing or prioritizing others' needs and emotions over your own. Being, like you said, being hypervigilant to what everyone else needs and those social cues and minimizing yourself in this space.
And on the other end of the spectrum, you've created this incredible podcast that is the go-to for the adoptee community by being someone who can have empathy, who can listen really well and pick up on those small cues and nuances and bring those things to light because you're bringing something out of someone else right to help them shine, which is absolutely a beautiful skill in itself.
Haley Radke: Thank you for the second part, not for the first part.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I think that first part is something, almost every client I've worked with, every adoptee I've known, like so many of us can relate to that, right? We make ourselves small to try and make space for others because we're not sure that we're worthy of taking up the space.
But that's part of acknowledging these things on a continuum. That when we can see that yes, this can be a struggle sometimes or it can be a superpower sometimes, then we can take ownership of it and feel proud of it and feel like we have more control over when we choose to use those skills and how we choose to use them.
Haley Radke: I appreciate hearing that piece of it, right? If we're aware of it, then we can be like, okay, maybe I do need to set up some more boundaries cuz I'm being a bit of a yes. Man here volunteering at every school thing that I get asked for or whatever. I mean, I'm just making that up. That could be anybody.
What's another thing that you see in a lot of adoptee clients? That could be on this kind of spectrum.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: So what often is looked at as a trauma response is needing control and being really independent. And yep, your facial expression tells me that is resonates too, right? For many of us.
Haley Radke: I thought I was good on this episode. I just wanna say.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I'm sorry if you're feeling attacked.
Haley Radke: Too much in my business.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: And yeah, I mean, all these things are things that I resonate with as well for sure. But that idea of control is not a bad thing and independence is not a bad thing, right? Like we don't wanna take it to the side of the spectrum where we are in isolation or we're trying to micromanage and predict everything.
But even just recently, I did a webinar on helping young adults kind of prepare for that transition to college or jobs and moving out of the home. And a lot of adoptees, it's easier for them to make that transition because they want to be independent and they know how to schedule things and meet deadlines and keep track of what needs to be done, right?
So there are definite benefits to that again, and being in control. I mean, control is really just about safety and predictability, and I think control gets a bad rap because who doesn't want to feel safe and be able to predict what happens next? Right? That's human nature. So some of those things that get pathologized so easily and just kind of put as a label on the adoptee, these are things that are more general and human in nature and we're not necessarily seeing the strengths in them because that isn't how society has taught us to see these things.
Haley Radke: Okay. I still feel like you're reading my mail because I, too, was excited to get out there on my own. Okay. Wow. I really hope I don't hit every single point on your list here.
Okay. What's next?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: All right. Healing episode. Bring it on. Right.
Haley Radke: Okay. So empathy control, but what that's like a independence. It's like we're, we can be independent. What's another common trait that can kind of go either way?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Here's a, I sense the hesitance there.
Haley Radke: Sorry. My face. I just look afraid. I think so.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: How about when it comes to attachment that so many people will kind of accuse adoptees of being too quick to cut others off or to stick with relationships that are harmful, right? That we might have this push pull and that we struggle with boundaries. But there are benefits to that too, that if we're quick to cut people off, Yes, that may sometimes need some work, or we may miss out on things.
But also that means we're much less likely to have toxic or harmful relationships in our life. We won't tolerate it as long as most people. Or, relationships that may be more challenging or difficult, we may stick with those longer because, if we're afraid of loss or rejection, we're more likely to put up with kind of quirks and idiosyncrasies.
So again, even things like that transition into young adulthood, right? Like dealing with roommates for the first time. You're less likely to be like, I can't deal with this. And more likely to say, okay, everyone's got their quirks. Let's see how we can figure this out. But then somebody who is too much and, stealing your things or throwing up in your bed, I don't know, whatever roommates do you know.
Haley Radke: Did you have a roommate that threw up in your bed?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I had some, I did have some rough roommates though. There's my own episode of trauma. Right.
Haley Radke: I was, I went to Christian University and I didn't have anybody. There was no throwing up in my bed. That was the other dorm.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: That was my dorm apparently. Yeah. But yet things like that, then, right then we're more likely be like, okay, this is too much. I'm not gonna tolerate this. This isn't safe for me. So I mean, again, it's that we have some idea of where those attachment injuries come from and when we can own that and understand them, it helps us identify our needs more easily.
Haley Radke: Okay. What about, I'm gonna call it being a chameleon. What's that? Because I, I feel like some of us can sort of mold to the situation, or there's been too many Instagram reels lately in my feed that are like, Oh, you like this personality? I made it for you. I'm like, oh, do I do that? Maybe.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. Again, I mean, absolutely. That is something that. We can struggle because we lose our own identity or even have a difficult time forming our identity because we're modeling it off of so many other people. Or that can mean that we are really good at being in different situations with different people and reading social cues more clearly, and knowing what's expected of us in that situation, what would keep us safe in that situation.
So it's a huge asset in a lot of ways. As long as that's not all we're doing. If we also have the ability to kind of come back to this grounded and core part of ourselves, and some of that is just kind of even reminding ourselves of what are my traits? What are these core traits about me that no matter what situation I'm in, I know that they're present and I trust that they'll help me navigate through it.
Haley Radke: There's this highly adaptable piece that, state the obvious Haley. I mean, you're a baby or child into a different family. Okay, I gotta fit in here so I can live. Right? That's the like, underlying message we get from our body.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Absolutely. And there is a difference between fitting in and belonging. I mean, fitting in is, adapting ourselves to meet the expectations of the environment or other people. So we have to filter ourselves and we are sacrificing some parts of us, and then belonging when we can bring our whole comprehensive self into a space and feel safe and accepted. I mean, that's really powerful and I feel like that's fairly rare too.
It is hard to find those spaces and those relationships. So we definitely wanna hold on to those when we can. But knowing that fitting in is not a bad thing either. That's what's required by our society in a lot of ways. So again, as long as that's not the only thing we're doing in all spaces, it's a great asset to be able to use for work and for other kinds of relationships.
Haley Radke: Are there any other traits that kind of pop to the top of your head about that you see in adoptee clients?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah, I mean, so many. Even just thinking about things like perfectionism. A lot of us, sorry, I'm hitting on something again. I can tell from a facial expression. Man, I wish this would be a video episode so people could see.
Haley Radke: No, because it's this therapy and for me. Everybody knows I have that. It's not a secret.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. So I mean those things though, right? Like perfectionism, again, like to a certain extent it can hinder us, but in a lot of ways that is incredibly useful to be detail-oriented and opinionated and know exactly how you want things to go. Yeah. That kind of assertiveness can serve us really well in a lot of situations.
And like you mentioned, even, empathy earlier that so many adoptees, I know it's, I think there are a lot of people who will say they root for the underdog. But I think we truly have a different level of sympathy and empathy for people who have non-traditional backgrounds. Like we're much more likely to be attuned to the nuances of how they might be affected by our language or our actions, because we see ourselves in that too. We understand how important those things are in interactions.
So I truly believe most adoptees I know are some of the most empathetic people on earth, which again it's got its benefits and its downfall. But when we own it and understand it, we can set the boundaries we need so that it's not taking up all of our bandwidth.
Haley Radke: Okay. We are a sports loving family. Now I say we, I guess I'm including myself in that kind of, but mostly it's my husband and my two boys. And because of what I do, every time they hear an athlete, some super famous athlete is adopted, they're like, oh my gosh, you gotta get so and so on your show. What about these high functioning, high achieving, trying to prove you're lovable? That's what I read into it. What do you think about that?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. That's, I mean, that's one of the identity pieces, right? That so many of us feel like to be worthwhile and have value that we have to contribute to the world in massive and significant ways. And I feel like maybe I even mentioned this on your show in the past, but you know, that idea of, if I'm gonna be a doctor, I can't just be any doctor. I have to be the one who cures cancer.
Or if I'm gonna be a scientist, I have to be the scientist who stops climate change from happening, right? And these are like teenagers in my office who have said these things. That idea that we have to be the best and the most, and do the most. Again, it's not a bad thing to be ambitious or an out-of-the-box thinker.
Those are great things for society and for us. But if we're pushing ourselves so far to something that's unrealistic, that's where it creates that pressure. So again, it's just about that balance of using the skills in the way that. That serve us really well and not feeling like we have to be a certain way or we should be a certain way.
Haley Radke: So for all of these things, right, I think we're all hearing there is a piece of that can be super unhealthy that we could focus on working on. How do you know when it's time to embrace that? Maybe you need to work on something like that. If it's in an unhealthy way that we're swinging to the not great side?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: It really depends on your comfort level. And I, I think this is one of those things that oftentimes adoptees can be pathologized by people who don't understand our experiences or needs. Especially making us monolithic instead of seeing us as unique people with our own stories. To really be aware that we get to choose what feels comfortable and safe for us, and that's fluid.
It's going to evolve over time and what feels comfortable to me right now might feel like a hindrance two years from now. And that's when I decide it needs to change. So I think it's really about attuning to ourselves and understanding what's fitting well for us in the present and what's fitting the needs that we have and what's not, what's missing and what do we feel like we could be getting more from.
So it's more about being honest with ourselves than anything else.
Haley Radke: You wrote this children's book called Marie Discovers Her Superpowers and it's so beautiful and like I just love your character in the book. Come on. That was so cool. Anyway, one of the things that Dr. Chaitra in the book is teaching Marie is agency over her story. And I think one of the things that we can be most, quote unquote valued for is for this interesting story we have to tell people. If they hear, oh, you're adopted. Oh my gosh, tell me more about that. Right? And even when I ask Hey, can you share your story with us? There's been a few guests that have been critical of that question and have felt from the general public, right, that they are being asked to entertain with my like personal life story. And so in the book, you're teaching Marie how to take ownership over her own story and decide when and where to share it. And can you talk a little bit about that as it's part of our identity. It is. I think it's one of our superpowers is having this, knowledge of our story and we don't need to be doling it out to anybody who asks.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Right. It's essentially, I wrote the book that I wish I would've had as a child. I was that kid that if anyone asked me anything about my story, I felt like a deer in headlights, and I could just like I just blurted things out without really feeling like I had any control over it.
I would walk away feeling like almost like it was a violation, that I, why did I share that? I didn't wanna share that. I didn't need to tell the clerk at the grocery store about where I was from, or how old I was when I was adopted. So this was a story that really was born out of my work with so many kids in play therapy. And being able to give them the sense of ownership and autonomy over their narrative that I wish I would've had.
In each of the stories in the Adoptees Like Me series, there's an adoptee coming to Dr. Chaitra's office for a session, and we're working through a particular issue around adoption. And so this one is about Marie who has gone to the park and had the experience of being asked a bunch of really insensitive questions about her adoption by strangers when they see that Marie and her mom don't match.
Right? So very common story for transracial adoptees, but also same race adoptees. Like you said. As soon as there's that awareness that you're adopted, people suddenly think your story is an open book. And I don't know what it is that causes people to lose their tact when it comes to that, but it really is something that we have to be in a space of having practiced almost like what are my options for responding and tuning in to what's my bandwidth in this situation?
Do I feel like I have the energy to educate people or do I feel like I trust them enough to share? So I really, I mean this story was with the goal of truthfully, I think, with anyone, not just adoptees in their stories, but with anyone, like we need to recognize that we have ownership over our narrative and we can choose how and when we share it.
And so the story was all about giving specific strategies for that because I think we all need that. It sounds good to say oh, I need to have boundaries with my story. But how, right? So giving practical tools like, here, you can respond this way, or you can choose to ignore it this way. I think that's a really helpful jumping off point for all of us to really start to, to own the ownership essentially.
Haley Radke: I love that. And I l like, I mean, all the things you share in the book are absolutely things adults can do too. Right? When people would say, when I was a kid, oh, you look so much like your dad or your mom. I would shout, no, I'm adopted. I would be like, trying so hard to differentiate myself, so I don't know what that is, but I've had the opposite. No I'm, I am adopted.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. It's just as awkward though, right? It's this almost like this secret you're carrying and you feel like an imposter of people think one way and that's not it. I mean it's, yeah. It's just unfair that it's part of our story that's so personal and ends up being public in so many random ways.
Haley Radke: Yeah, cuz it feels weird cuz as soon as I said that, it's now it's out there and you can't unring that bell. So I don't know. Anyway. I really appreciate that. Do you wanna give us maybe one strategy that we could use when we're asked something like that? Let's think about, let's do online spaces, right?
So maybe we're commenting on Instagram post, something about adoption, and we get asked an invasive question that we're like, huh, stranger on the internet. I don't really, is this the place for this? What would you say?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I really like the, "I wonder" response. I wonder why you ask, or I wonder why that feels important to you, or, I wonder what you're expecting me to say.
Kind of giving people that question that helps them kind of go back into a place of self-reflection. Oh yeah, was it okay for me to ask that? Or am I being too invasive? And what is too personal? Where is the line? So I think that question back, and I wonder, is such a just kind of a gentle way of asking as opposed to why, which often feels accusing and people get defensive quickly. But just, I wonder why that feels like you need to know that? Then it makes it not quite as a- I don't know. It doesn't feel like quite as much of a, an attack when you add that to the front. I dunno. Therapy 1 0 1 kind of things.
Haley Radke: I like that. That's good. Is there anything else that you wanna kind of say around this general topic? Again I started this it out this way, right? There's this discomfort in me trying to make us look on the positive side. Whereas I also don't want us to sit in the negative side. So there's like this real balance and I don't know, is there anything else that we could be looking for more on the positive, like adoptee superpower side without covering up the hard stuff?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I think it's like you said, that naming that this comes from hard stuff is important, and we have built these skills as a way to survive the hard stuff. So we've earned it. We deserve to use these and feel proud of how we've used them.
Haley Radke: That's good. I like that. All right. Anything I didn't ask you wanna make sure I ask you about?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: So I will mention that even though the book is a children's book, I have been getting a ton of feedback from therapists and adult adoptees that it has been just as powerful for the adults. And I think because it is the book that I would've needed as a kid, it's speaking to a lot of adults who feel that same way. So I would say even if you're not a kid, go ahead and order Marie Discovers Her Superpowers because my understanding is that it is reaching the kid in all of us and it's giving, kind of, filling in the gaps of things that we needed.
So I hope that it can be something that people of all ages are discovering their superpowers.
Haley Radke: I love this line. Marie says, I never thought of myself as an adoption expert before. Wow. I'm definitely going to grab a second copy to bring it over to my therapist's office next time I have an appointment.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: That is great.
Haley Radke: Yeah. She loves all the adoption Brooks. I bring her, I'm sure.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Sure. Yeah.
Haley Radke: I wonder if she listens to my show. Ooh, I've never asked her. Okay. If you had a client with a podcast, would you listen to their show?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I don't think I would. I would definitely ask their permission first.
Haley Radke: Okay. Oh, alright. She probably doesn't listen then. That's fine.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: I know every therapist is different, it's worth asking.
Haley Radke: No, it's better. It's better cuz then she can't get extra intel in which to dig on. Thank you so much Chaitra, I really appreciate it. So Marie Discovers Her Superpowers is the first one.
What's the second book that's out?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: The book that just came out is Casey Conquers Bedtime. It's the second book in the Adoptees Like Me series, and that one is all about bedtime anxiety. So again, just normalizing and validating why adoptees might struggle with sleep and why it might feel kind of anxiety provoking.
And this one gets into E M D R work, eye movement and desensitization reprocessing. It's something that kind of helps our body to move through something that's really uncomfortable. So it's using kind of a resourcing technique.
But I love this story because it's really something that we used a lot with my kiddo with sleep anxiety that was helpful and it offers a way to use like movement and rhythm and music chanting some really powerful ways to move through that sleep anxiety, and again, take ownership over it.
Haley Radke: Do you have adult clients coming in struggling with sleep as well?
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah. It tends to look a little bit different because as grownups, right, we have a little more control over, I'm just gonna sit and be on my iPad all night, or work all night, or so it doesn't quite look the same as kids who have caregivers coming up to them saying, you need to go to bed, put this away, take this outta your room, go to sleep.
So this hopefully will give a little bit more of that control back to kids. And I'll mention that this series is something that I am self-publishing because I wanted to be really careful to make sure that a mainstream publisher didn't get to adjust the adoptee voice throughout the series.
So it was really important to me to protect adoptee perspectives in this and make sure it was directly coming from the adoptee voice. But self-publishing is pretty expensive. I did not reali-- just to give you an example, I had a plan for 12 books and I narrowed that down to seven and now down to six.
So I'm like, if I can get these six out, that would be so great. Cause they're on really common themes that I feel like adoptees struggle with. But I do have a fundraiser going on to help support the cost of self-publishing. So I'm hoping that people will check that out too. And there are some cool rewards with it that even if you just contribute $10, you get full access to my webinar library. All my recorded webinars for the rest of the year.
Haley Radke: Oh, that's cool. You've done some really amazing webinars. So that's a great, I'm just gonna make a comment on the publishing thing. I think a lot of people don't know. I've talked with several adoptee authors who are published by mainstream publishing houses who had to, let's say, sanitize some of the adoptee experience to make it more palatable for the general public. So I appreciate that you're not doing that. Wonderful. Love to hear it.
Okay. Where can we connect with you online support, the books, all the things.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Yeah, so you can go to my website growbeyondwords.com. There's one for the books at adopteeslikeme.com. I am on Facebook and Instagram, so you can find me in those places too.
Haley Radke: Perfect. We will link to all those spots in the show notes. Thank you so much, Chaitra. It's just an honor to talk with you again, and I appreciate you highlighting all those like good qualities that we have.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Absolutely. Yeah, I hope you can take ownership over your superpowers, Haley. Cause you have so many of them.
Haley Radke: I was gonna say, so some unhealthy thing like yeah, I'll shove all the rest of the dark closet, but don't do that. Don't, I'm not recommending that.
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: Thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show again, I really appreciate it and in everything that you contribute to the adoption community.
Haley Radke: Thank you.
I endorse Dr. Chaitra's new book and as I was reading it for the first time, I thought God, wouldn't have been amazing to have had these when I was a kid. I am so thankful. I feel so thankful for the adoptees who are putting out work like this in the world so that the future generations of adopted people can feel more known and validated sooner in their lives.
So we're not out here processing this stuff at age 40, 50, 60, 70, and instead, hopefully we've come to our identities at a younger and younger age. I am. I just feel so, so grateful. I wanna thank. So much my Patreon supporters, like without you, I literally could not do this show every week. Thank you so much to all the people who have been donating to our transcription project.
It means so much to me that you want this show to be more accessible to more adopted people. I feel really grateful. So if you wanna join and support the transcription project, it's adopteeson.com/donate. Or there's just a link right on the homepage, adopteeson.com, where you can see how far we have come and how far we have to go for that fundraiser.
And then if you wanna join Patreon, it's adopteeson.com/community. Thanks so much for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
