280 Svetlana Sandoval
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/280
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it, either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. Oh, we're back and I'm sick again. My voice is only going to be like this for the intro because luckily I was healthy when I interviewed this week's guest Svetlana Sandoval. Svetlana is an international adoptee adopted from Russia at about six months old.
We talk about what sparked an interest to search for her biological family, how she navigated the language barriers using technology and a friend of a friend. Svetlana also shares about her decision to reclaim her original name. Due to the sensitive nature of her reunion during the war, [00:01:00] she will not be commenting directly on the conflict.
Before we get started, I wanted to personally invite you to join our Patreon Adoptee community today over on adopteeson.com. I'm going to leave that in. Because, listen, my dog just licked the microphone. That's Spencer. He's busy chewing on my hand, being a rascal, and keeping me company as I have my sick day here.
Okay, supporting me on Patreon helps support the show and supports more adoptees around the world. And it also supports my brand new podcasting project I'm working on. I'm keeping mostly everything pretty secret right now but we'll be excited to share more news with you soon. We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website adopteeson.Com. Let's listen in. I'm so [00:02:00] pleased to welcome to Adoptees On Svetlana Sandoval. Welcome Svetlana.
Svetlana Sandoval: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Haley Radke: I would love it if you would share some of your story with us.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, absolutely. So I am an international adoptee. I was born in Yaroslavl, Russia. It's about a five hour drive northeast of Moscow.
I was born in March 1997 and then adopted six months later the same year to my family in northeast Ohio. I had a pretty quote unquote normal childhood. I'm a same race adoptee. I was adopted by white parents who look enough like me that people looking at our family didn't assume that I was adopted. I always knew that I was adopted.
I think I primarily knew about my adoption through my parents telling me their bedtime story version of how they wanted a child so much that they flew across the ocean to get me and here we were, [00:03:00] happily ever after. And it seemed simple in those terms and that was the only way my child self could understand how I came to be here.
As a young child, being adopted was something I was really proud to share with people. Sometimes I would introduce myself and be like, and I'm adopted from Russia. It was like my fun fact or, go to. When I was little, but I remember pretty early on, maybe around first or second grade, that pride started to shift when my classmates would ask me questions like, but who is your real mom?
Or they would ask me something about Russia that I honestly couldn't answer because I didn't know much about where I was from. And I think those interactions formed a shame that made me not want to talk about my adoption anymore. And those questions that I couldn't answer definitely shaped my own disinterest in my heritage throughout my childhood.
Then, throughout my preteens and adolescence, I had many mental health [00:04:00] crises that stemmed from what I now see as an obvious series of identity issues that stemmed from my initial loss due to adoption, and I didn't necessarily, again, look adopted to others. And in a way that kind of erased my own sense of self and curiosity of who I was outside of the context of my adoptive family.
Haley Radke: Did you have siblings growing up?
Svetlana Sandoval: So I grew up pretty much as an only child I have three half brothers from my adoptive dad, but they were all pretty much grown and out of the house by the time I was adopted.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah,
Haley Radke: So lonely.
Svetlana Sandoval: It was lonely. And then the identity issues I had just intensified through my late teens and early twenties.
By the time that I was in high school, I remember saying things to my friends like I must have been discarded after I was born. I think that like core belief formed pretty early on, even though my adoptive parents never said anything like [00:05:00] that to me. I was always told the typical narrative, your birth mother must have loved you so much that she wanted you to have a better life.
But I think as adoptees, we tend to assume the worst and we have no definite information where, how we came to be where we are. And then getting into my early 20s, I started to question more where I came from and I slowly collected information from my adoptive parents from their time in Russia. And then over the winter of 2022, I was looking at this document that I believed was my birth certificate.
I had it in my fireproof file box under the label birth certificate. But it was in Russian, so I couldn't read it. And I just happened to have a friend who had a friend. She offered to translate it. And in fact, it wasn't my birth certificate. It was a completely different document. It was a certificate of my adoption.
So when I had that first translated document, that's when I really started to more critically question my adoption and what my truths [00:06:00] were. And around that same time is when I found Adoptees On and started searching for adoptee community. And then I continued asking my parents for any information that they had, and they collected everything for me and gave me this Talbots box filled with all of the court documents and paperwork from Russia.
And among all of the documents was this tiny yellow folded up lined paper with my birth name written in Russian cursive handwriting. And wrapped up in this paper was this little silver Orthodox cross necklace that had been left for me. And that necklace gave me more information than all of the documents.
Just knowing that something had been left for me immediately changed that internal narrative that I was discarded. And then in the documents, I also had access now to my birth mother's name, her date of birth, some other identifying information. [00:07:00] So I started searching for her on Russian social media sites.
She passed her name on to me. So we share our first name. And unfortunately, Svetlana is like the most common Russian name. And at the time, I didn't really have understanding of how common, commonly used like their nicknames are and didn't have a good grasp of the language and how the names are listed on social media.
So I didn't have luck finding her on my own. The day after then I had all of these documents and started searching. I found a private investigator and a Facebook page for Russian adoptees that some others had success with. And within a few hours I was in contact with my birth mother. It happened so fast. I wasn't expecting it.
Haley Radke: How old were you then?
Svetlana Sandoval: This is a year ago. So I, yeah,
Haley Radke: This is new.
Svetlana Sandoval: I was 25 about to turn 26. I'll be 27 next month. Yeah. So it's all real new [00:08:00] still.
Haley Radke: Oh my goodness. Okay, so to slow down just a little bit.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: The Russian it's, there's a different alphabet, right?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: And how's Google Translate when you're trying to because you can't look at it and type something in, right?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. I now can because I've downloaded the keyboards and everything.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: Then I had no knowledge. I had never explored Russian language before this. So I'm just like copy and pasting. They have the feature where you can hold your camera up and it might pick up all the letters.
Haley Radke: Uh huh.
Svetlana Sandoval: I was typing things in English on social media because they also use English somewhat on social media. It wasn't great. And Google Translate is not good for Russian.
Haley Radke: Okay. I didn't know.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, no, I didn't know either.
Haley Radke: I'm thinking if this had happened, say 20 years ago.
Svetlana Sandoval: Oh gosh, yeah, I know.
Haley Radke: You'd need that friend of a friend to come and help you translate it into English [00:09:00] and then who knows if you could find or not. Oh my goodness. That's a lot. That's a lot. So this is going really fast. The investigator finds your mom and
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, within a few hours, I was in contact with her. I had her phone number. I had her picture. And, I sent her my introductory spiel. My name is Svetlana, my birth last name, I was born March 1997, I'm adopted, I'm looking for my birth family. And her response was totally skeptical. She thought I was a scam. Until I sent her a photo of the necklace and the paper it was wrapped in, and she immediately recognized my grandfather's handwriting, and our connection was verified.
Haley Radke: Wow. Did you ask your adoptive parents why you had to ask for those things from them?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. I think it's like we were in this cycle of I was disinterested. [00:10:00] They didn't inspire the interest. I was also getting these external signals of being grateful. My parents did this wonderful thing.
So I had all these signals that maybe I shouldn't really think about this. So therefore I didn't show interest. And they're they've sometimes had you didn't show interest. I'm like, yeah, I didn't show interest. So it was just like in this cycle of they weren't nurturing the interest. So I wasn't showing the interest.
Haley Radke: I have this obsession with objects that were given or left with us and finding out how folks eventually even find out these things exist because often they're not given to us.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: It's interesting that they did have it waiting for you for when you asked.
Svetlana Sandoval: A lot of it I really do believe too. It was just put away. They didn't have to worry about it once they had me here, so I don't think they honestly remembered everything that they had, or the details of the information. It really just sat in the [00:11:00] closet, and we didn't have to look at it, so that's where it stayed. Till last year.
Haley Radke: So you said it's your grandfather's writing?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: So do you know your story now from your mother?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yes.
Haley Radke: Oh.
Svetlana Sandoval: Since then I've been in this like virtual reunion with I have a babushka, grandma, dadushka, grandpa, I've got a little brother, he's five years younger than me, an uncle, cousins, aunts.
So we've spent the year just trying to catch up and make up for our lost time. And yeah, I have gotten their side of the story. So to give a little bit of context here, I've heard some other Russian adoptees refer to our adoptions that happened in the 90s in post Soviet Russia as like refugee cases.
My family has certainly verified the economic hardship that they faced following the collapse of the USSR, but I don't necessarily identify or agree [00:12:00] that I am a refugee of the situation. My grandparents and mom have expressed that they had every intention to keep me. I was with my mom for four days in the hospital before I was relinquished.
They ultimately made the decision because they were told that I was so sick, there would be no way for them to afford the care that I was going to need. But that really wasn't the case, according to my documents. After I was relinquished, I got a round of antibiotics and shortly after was sent off to the orphanage that I was placed in to be adopted out of.
And I see the adoptions that happened and came out of Russia in the 90s as a much broader issue that the international adoption industry that was booming at the time took advantage of the economic hardship that was happening in Russia after the USSR collapse. And I really believe my family. was somewhat victim and coerced by the system.
There was a lot of like [00:13:00] misinformation and false diagnoses happening and Russian adoptee cases.
Haley Radke: So I don't know a ton about Russian adoption. I was researching a little bit before our conversation and I've seen different figures like there's 60, 000 Russian adoptees from that sort of time period in that decade.
Many of which went to the United States and, the big news a while ago was that Russia closed adoption to the United States.
Svetlana Sandoval: 2013.
Haley Radke: Yeah. And it's interesting, the medical diagnosis, I've heard that from a few adoptees. I don't think that's too unusual, sadly.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Including current day in the United States, domestic adoptions. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that happened. Yeah. You're super new in reunion.
Svetlana Sandoval: I am.
Haley Radke: And it's far [00:14:00] away, long distance. What does your communication look like?
Svetlana Sandoval: We mostly message and text. It's easy to copy and paste through a translator, Yandex. Russian adoptees is a much better translator than Google Translate. I've also, spent some time learning introductory Russian before I decided to go back to college. I spent last summer doing tutoring. We do video call, but, with the language barrier, what could be a five minute conversation takes us an hour. It's difficult.
Haley Radke: Okay, yeah.
Svetlana Sandoval: I don't know that I'll ever, really feel like I can ask the questions and get the answers that I want until several years from now when I can speak with them fluently and there's also this fragility of trying to communicate these like deeply personal intimate questions and feelings with a language barrier and with the cultural differences woven into that there's always this fear that I have that it's going to be misinterpreted.
Haley Radke: Yeah, [00:15:00] and I started what I was thinking in my head is I'm like and it's really easy to stop communication when you're so far apart.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: It feels less consequential. I don't know.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, no, that's definitely been a fear. I think it was a fear more so earlier on and now The fact that we've continued to be in communication and plan to meet one day when that's possible. They're still as involved in my life as like we can be virtually today as they were a year ago after I found them.
Haley Radke: Can you mentioned cultural differences. Growing up. You knew you were from Russia, but did you know what that meant, where Russia was, like, anything about Russian culture?
Svetlana Sandoval: No. Yes. Yes. Okay, so I knew where I was [00:16:00] born, and I could point to that on the globe or on the map.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: I knew about Russia the way I think most Americans know about Russia. It's matryoshka dolls, it's vodka, it's bears. Or it's the bad guy in the movie. That was the general understanding that I understood. Because that's all that I really was exposed to.
Haley Radke: Mhm.
Svetlana Sandoval: My parents did have some things in the house. A lot of my like children's books and fairy tales were like U. S. adaptations of Russian fairy tales. My favorite one was The Little Snow Girl.
Haley Radke: What's that?
Svetlana Sandoval: It's, oh, I'll have to Send it to you. It's a, I think, I don't remember the author's name right now, but The Little Snow Girl is this Russian fairy tale.
It's very Americanized in the book that I had, but it's a story of this little girl that's made of snow and her parents aren't made of snow and they bring her inside and make these things for her and one day she melts, but then she becomes a real girl and that's not [00:17:00] really the story of The Little Snow Girl in Russia, but it had these like illustrations that had some of the Russian folk art in it Little Snow Girl in Russian is they have a different version of our version of Santa and she's like his sidekick and she has like different backstories depending on what era of Russian folklore you're looking at.
Haley Radke: So the Americanized version is that you're made of snow, your parents are not, so you're adopted and you are brought into the house to melt?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yes. Literally, yes.
Haley Radke: And be formed into what they would like you to be.
Svetlana Sandoval: The little girl that they wanted. Yes, you heard that correctly.
Haley Radke: Oh, good. Yeah, okay. Okay. Interesting. Having, the, let's call it the [00:18:00] Americanized glasses on for a view of Russia up until you're, say 24. Now that you're like, oh my gosh. I don't understand the differences. What does that feel like? I feel like I'm imagining this pressure to fast forward, must learn so I don't say the wrong thing or offend or.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, I absolutely have just felt like I cannot grasp everything fast enough. And I remember when first found them, I was like, just so upset.
I'm like, why can't I learn all of this right now? And I also have to accept that there's some things with my family, nothing is that I learn no matter how much time I could spend the rest of my life learning about my history and culture. It's not going to be the same as if I had grown up there with them, and I'm still going to have this Americanized version of [00:19:00] it.
And it feels like I don't totally feel like an imposter in some ways, like I'm grasping on to everything I can to learn about it, but it's still just never going to be enough or authentic enough.
Haley Radke: Do you have a sense, this might be too early to ask about, but do you have a sense of what your Russian family thinks of your American perspective?
Svetlana Sandoval: They think it's American. They say that. They're like, Oh you're purely American. But, I think I'm, I don't know if this is like unique, but my family and my birth mom has been really, open and accepting and willing to hear my side for the most part and is more interested than shut down or that's wrong. And I think, they just accept that. I didn't get to grow up with them. You have a different version.
Haley Radke: Yeah. I know you can't speak for transracial adoptees because you [00:20:00] are internationally adopted, but same race and could blend in your white, beautiful, blonde, like your beautiful, traditional American beauty too, right?
So I'm curious. if you have heard from fellow international adoptees who are transracially adopted, and if you can relate to their stories on a cultural barrier.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: You know what I'm trying to say?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, I think so.
Haley Radke: I'm trying to ask you this, but okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yes and no. I always, I feel like I relate to other international adoptees a lot more in those respects of this loss of language that makes it hard and the loss of culture and literally being displaced on another continent and like in some ways we've had to like physically adapt to being [00:21:00] on the other side of the world. But I don't know I guess I feel like I respect that like my and understand my experience because I am still a same race adoptee is not comparable in that way so I don't really feel like it's my right to take up space in their specific adoptee groups.
It's, it has been hard finding like an intersectional space for me of like international adoptees and adoptees that are over here exploring consciousness and want to talk about all of the feelings and things, cause, in my experience, I haven't found a lot of Russian adoptees that are over here on our side of adoptee land.
Haley Radke: Exploring the complexity of adoption and the ethics and such. I am curious and let's talk a little bit more about that. Because in the ethical, and we're unethical side of adoption. I know that many adoptive parents [00:22:00] have pursued or did pursue international adoption from Eastern European countries, especially in the decades we're talking about here in the nineties, in order to have white children, at a good rate.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: So have you thought a little bit about that?
Svetlana Sandoval: Oh, totally. And my parents have verified that for me. And part of me is thank God you didn't try to adopt another race adoptee, because that just would have been such a horrible environment. And now we know like the outcomes and extra trauma of like transracial adoption.
And then there's added complexity of yeah, I was white, so I could blend in somewhat. More of this blank slate, not adopted daughter.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I I know there was a lot we've criticized Korean adoption many times on this show for their exporting of children, but I know that was happening a lot in [00:23:00] some of the, those countries too. I won't speak specifically to Russian adoption because I don't know, but.
Svetlana Sandoval: I think there's a same level of white saviorism in international adoption. It was like we were being saved no matter where we were coming from. We were being saved from a like I said, I've seen others refer to us as refugees, like it was saving us from Russia.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: The same way it was saving us wherever else the other international adoptees were being done.
Haley Radke: So from the collapsed USSR, the poverty,
Svetlana Sandoval: yeah,
Haley Radke: All the tropes, stereotypes that you can think of. Okay. I know you're one adoptee. You're not speaking on behalf of all Russian adoptees. Why do you think that there are fewer Russian adoptees speaking publicly and critically about adoption?
Svetlana Sandoval: I think there's probably several [00:24:00] reasons, but I guess my most general, guess Is I know that I really rejected my heritage and culture when I was little because it was just these like really broad stereotypes that I mentioned earlier and there was no curiosity there or really any redeeming qualities or places that I saw my culture being portrayed in a positive light that made me want to explore it.
So my guess is maybe there's just this internalized shame and I mean for me that also made me like ashamed of like adoption and being adopted and I just wanted to not be adopted and I don't know I can only assume that maybe that's a big reason that they're not exploring all of that because I think if you start to explore your heritage and identity then you it's goes in hand but then you have to the next part of that maybe is exploring the adoption piece and how that has formed you.
Haley Radke: So as you've unpacked [00:25:00] more and more of this, are, have you, how do you unhook this skewed view? you've had from the constant diet of American media about the Russian stereotypes like you listed off before. Like, how do you unhook that for yourself?
Svetlana Sandoval: For me, my family, just knowing my family has just humanized this before what was just an idea of Russia and like getting to know them and having connection with them and sharing recipes with them and cooking their food. And that's really, they're my bridge to humanizing this part of me that before was just stereotypes.
Haley Radke: And now that you've shared a little bit publicly about being a Russian adoptee [00:26:00] and we're in a time where Russia is not only portrayed as from, movies as the big bad, it is in the news all the time. Because of the war. So how are you able to interact with people who may criticize you personally for the fact that there's this world event going on that you live in the States you have nothing to do with? Like it's, you're very separate from.
Svetlana Sandoval: It's, fortunately, I haven't had any big confrontations yet so far.
I know some people that have, but at the start of the war, it was like, couldn't be a worse time to be, like, reclaiming my heritage and being like, I'm proud of who I'm from and I'm, want to explore my heritage for all these things, because literally no one wants to hear [00:27:00] how excited I am to be Russian right now, and it's tricky, and I definitely have evolved and have come to a place to allow myself space to explore and celebrate my heritage, but it does still feel like, I have to be sensitive and careful what I say and how I express my pride because of what's going on.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Svetlana Sandoval: But yeah, it's just so out of my control. It's just horrible timing.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Svetlana Sandoval: To be excited.
Haley Radke: Worst timing. And speaking of travel there, like I went and I was looking on, I'm like, oh, restricted. It's not recommended.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, you can't even. You can't even buy plane tickets from like the main, if you just search plane tickets and go on Delta, whatever the major airlines are, it's no flights, sorry, no flights available at this time, it's like absolutely restricted.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Svetlana Sandoval: There are ways, but in general, it's a big red flag, don't do it.
Haley Radke: Right. What's the [00:28:00] recipe that you got, were shared that you made, or just one?
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, so for my birthday last year, my, Grandma and I both made her Miedewijktoort. It's this honeybee cake. And I know this is common for a lot of adoptees, like just hated my birthday. Didn't really know why for a long time, but just hated it.
And since my reunion this year, like everything has been a big first celebration. So it was like my first birthday since finding my family and really felt like the first time I could celebrate it. And I made her recipe, and my babushka made the recipe in Russia, so we got to be, virtually connected through that, and that to me was just so sacred.
And it also, it was early on in our reunion, and it also just verified for me that it was as equally important for them, finding [00:29:00] me, as it was for me to find them.
Haley Radke: And what do you think of the cake?
Svetlana Sandoval: Oh, it's delicious. I love it. It's like a, the Miedewijktoort is it's a traditional recipe and her version's a little bit different than what you would buy at the Russian deli.
But for me, that's makes it even better. That means it's, my grandma's.
Haley Radke: Authentic. Yes. Oh, that's so special. Okay. So your name at birth was Svetlana and now it's Svetlana.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Did you grow up as Svetlana?
Svetlana Sandoval: Absolutely not.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: No, they, my adoptive parents changed my name. I was Elizabeth.
And somewhere around high school, I started going by Lana. It's like I was like trying on this like more Americanized version of my Russian name.
Haley Radke: Okay, so you knew?
Svetlana Sandoval: Oh, I knew what my name was. And then I like, started trying it on in high school, but I totally denied it. People would be like, where'd Lana come from? And I'd be like, I don't know. I think I [00:30:00] heard once that Lana Del Rey's name is Elizabeth. So maybe Lana is a nickname for Elizabeth. So I totally tried to disguise it and whatever, but it was, I was totally just trying to try on this part of me. My friends called me Lana. My teachers called me Lana. My family made fun of it and it didn't feel good after a while and then by the time I was like getting married and I just didn't want to explain my name, so I was like, I'm ditching this. I'm going back to Elizabeth. It's easier for everyone and now I'm like, I just want to hug my teenage self and be like, no, you knew who you were.
I wish I had felt supported to explore what my name meant to me at that time because I decided to take back my birth name after I found my mom and you know she passed on her name to me and it's like I can feel a change in my nervous system in the places where I only [00:31:00] exist as Svetlana. There's only a couple of those places right now because I'm still navigating the, I'm still new to the name change within the last year, so there's plenty of places where people don't know what to call me.
But in the places where I'm only Svetlana, like it just calms me and soothes me and I feel it in my core and it's this is who I am. And it's really frustrating too trying to explain to people they, when they look at me and are like, oh, that's so radical. You've changed your name. Like, how do your adoptive parents feel about that?
And I'm like, no, that's not the crazy part. I'm just taking back what was mine. I've always been Svetlana.
Haley Radke: I've always been Svetlana. I love that. You said you knew what your name was. How did you know what your name was?
Svetlana Sandoval: My parents told me. They shared that. Like, when I asked, I really don't remember the conversations were short and not too in depth, and I think they would tell you it's because I didn't ask more, and I would say I didn't feel like I [00:32:00] could ask more.
But that was just one of the things I knew along with being adopted was that was my name.
Haley Radke: How is your relationship with your adoptive parents?
Svetlana Sandoval: Continuing to evolve and change.
Haley Radke: You're a mid twenties girly married reunion. It would be anyway.
Svetlana Sandoval: Changed a lot just in the past year, I'd say, since my reunion.
I was you know, I'm pretty typical terrified to tell them that I was in reunion, but they've mostly been they have been really supportive. There have been moments where, I wish they had have could have shown up for me in a different way or asked more about my family primarily is like where I feel the gap sometimes is it feels like two separate things.
And if I don't volunteer information, they won't ask about it. It feels I don't know. If you don't talk about it, we won't talk about it because we don't want you to feel like you have to talk about it. Again, it's this cycle [00:33:00] sometimes. But, it's been interesting for me, too, because I always felt like I had a pretty strained relationship with my, particularly my adoptive father.
But, recently, it's really been cool because he's connected with me and has seen my story as an immigrant because he's a first generation immigrant. And so it, I just it's totally been a surprise for me that he has, understood and I feel really seen and heard from him in my need to go see my family eventually and he's just yeah, of course. Absolutely. Like it makes sense to him. And we've, connected in that a little bit over food too. And yeah, that's
interesting.
Haley Radke: So you talked about this desire to go and meet your family. And I've heard this rumor that you can keep [00:34:00] your Russian citizenship if you're an international adoptee from Russia.
So they've sent you off abroad somewhere, whatever country, that you have Russian citizenship until you turn 18 and then you either have to accept it or deny it. I don't know.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. So this was. This is news to me.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. I'm going to give you a little bit of background here on my adoption agency.
My parents were told when I was naturalized as a U. S. citizen, my Russian citizenship was renounced, so I was only a U. S. citizen. Wasn't the case. I'm going back here. Again, to give a little context, like my adoption agency was actually shut down on a federal case in 2016. Most of the charges were fraud related.
I've talked to some other adoptees that were adopted through them too. And we have a lot of shared accounts of like our parents stories of the blatantly unethical practices and [00:35:00] bribery that was done at the time.
Haley Radke: Whoa.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. So it's not really surprising to me that my parents were not told the truth about my citizenship status.
But it's you know, there's no handbook. So I'm just figuring this out as I go along. So you are we have like birthright citizenship. You are still a Russian citizen. No one else can renounce it for you so it's like literally impossible that anyone else could have done that only the individual can do that over the age of 18 or to travel you would have to confirm your Russian citizenship with the embassy or consulate that your state's assigned to, and then go through another, once that's confirmed, process again of renewing your Russian passport, because neither place right now recognizes the citizenship in the other.
So I can't travel to Russia as a U. S. citizen. I can only travel as a Russian citizen with my renewed valid Russian [00:36:00] documents.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: So if you're a Russian adoptee, you may want to look into this if it's of interest to
you.
Svetlana Sandoval: I am, and all the forms have to be completed in Russian. So I'm working with this agency in Chicago and they're helping me fill out all the documents and everything, but it's such a long process and there's no definite timeline here. The citizenship portion can take three months, it can take six months, it could take a year, and then when you fill out another set of forms, again all in Russian, send it off to the embassy, then you have to make an appointment and go in person to the embassy or consulate, and then again you wait another three months, six months, a year, so there's no definite timeline.
And that's, devastating and frustrating to not know when I'm ever going to see an end to it.
Haley Radke: And just doing that impact in any way your U. S. citizenship?
Svetlana Sandoval: No, not [00:37:00] at all. U. S. citizenship's pretty, I don't know, simple. We're, as long as you're actually, naturalized as a U. S. citizen, not, Russia can't do anything to change your U.
S. citizenship. I just can't travel legally there as a U. S. citizen, which is, it's wild to me, like my husband, he was born in the U. S., he could technically, political situation aside, get a visa and travel tomorrow, because he was born in the U. S., so he's only traveling as a U. S. citizen, and I can't, because my passport says I was born in Russia, so.
It's wild.
Haley Radke: Okay. Yeah, that is very interesting. I've heard from a few different adoptees who are trying in some way to get citizenship in their country of origin and for reasons it's always so complicated.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, I know, especially with the language barrier. It's I'm so nervous to go to my appointment at the embassy because I have to be able to at [00:38:00] least request a translator, which I hear they're supposed to provide for you.
But I'm like I should be able to explain myself a little bit and ask for the translator at least.
Haley Radke: And there's still a, there's a Russian embassy in the States or more than one.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, there's a couple consulates. One was shut down a few years ago. There used to be one in Chicago, but I believe there's three altogether now There's one in I think Houston then New York, which is the one I my state's assigned to so I'll have to go to New York and then there's the embassy in DC.
Haley Radke: Wow. All the things I never knew and we're recording in 2024.
Svetlana Sandoval: Could change.
Haley Radke: And we're not lawyers. We actually, I don't know what you do, but I'm not a lawyer.
Svetlana Sandoval: I'm not a lawyer. No.
Haley Radke: So we're not giving advice here, but yeah. Okay. So you had assistance with your search, but now I understand you are connecting with other Russian adoptees and helping with what you can now that you've navigated some of this.[00:39:00]
Svetlana Sandoval: I have found some Russian, there's a couple, a few, maybe Russian adoptees that I've really connected with. I think maybe this is repetitive to what I said before, but the specific specifically Russian adoptee spaces and communities just have been a little disappointing for me in that not a lot of exploring the adoptee consciousness and I have to remind myself there's no right way to be adopted. It's all different. It's all nuanced. You're not supposed to feel any certain way. But for me, I find more community and validation of my experience in the general adoptee community. But I have a handful a couple of Russian adoptees that I've been able to share that with, which has been cool.
And then I am also, I haven't done a lot yet, but I started volunteering with Adoption Network Cleveland and helping them because they do search volunteering. So helping them, like providing all the [00:40:00] information I can to help Russian adoptees specifically navigate starting the searches now that I have a better grasp of the language and how names work and how some of that searching can be done. On their own.
Haley Radke: Again, I know you're not an expert in all things Russian adoptee. Just throwing it out there because I'm curious. Do you find that a lot of Russian adoptees would have paperwork that has a birth parent name on it? How are people mostly finding? Can they DNA test? Is it? No. Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: No DNA testing. I'd say most of the time, from what I have seen, people have some document with a birth parent's name and date of birth,
Haley Radke: whether or not they can read it.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Svetlana Sandoval: And then there's also in Russian names, you have the first name and then the patronymic name and the last name. So there's a whole, this whole other part of understanding how the the patronymic name is in the place of what we would have as a middle name.
And it's usually, [00:41:00] it comes from, it's a derivative of your father's name or grandfather's name traditionally. So also from that, you can decipher maybe a grandparent's name or a father's name. Usually there's a name, DNA testing. No. I did 23andMe initially and got nowhere. I've got, 5th, 6th cousins. They don't have the same DNA testing.
Haley Radke: Unless you're lucky enough that someone has moved to Europe or North America or something, Yeah. Sure. If they've sent out other Children to be adopted out didn't help you find them either. It just helps you find your connections. Okay. Okay.
Interesting. I'm glad you're in community. And thank you for sharing your story and some of your expertise now on this topic, is there anything else that you [00:42:00] wanted to make sure you shared today with fellow adoptees or fellow Russian adoptees or anything like that?
Svetlana Sandoval: My hope for Russian adoptees is that, they come over here and explore like adoption land too. I wish I saw and heard more Russian adoptee voices. I remember when I was first looking for adoptee community, I was like searching for Russian adoptees on these podcasts like Adoptees On, and I don't know. I hope my voice is that assurance for someone else who doesn't see someone else over here from Russia. So.
Haley Radke: I'm gonna just make a little guess. I don't know if this is the case or not, but I'm guessing it's because you're all so young still.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah and there's this other factor that there's not gonna be more of us, right? Like they were cut off. So it's like this is it. Which is a good thing, but no, let's not internationally adopt maybe but yeah, it's limited and this is what we've [00:43:00] got. So this is what we have to work with.
Haley Radke: Yeah. So I'll say the thing that, that you're hinting around at the Russian adoptees that I have interacted with most online, there is still just mostly gratitude and rainbow heart eyes over the whole thing.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yes.
Haley Radke: And, like you said, people can feel any type of way they want about adoption.
That's fine. However, I think, you mentioned this a little bit earlier, with that prejudice that is built in North America surrounding our media intake as Russia as the big bad, it's, it must be easy to be like, oh, thank God I was saved. Out of Siberia or wherever.
Svetlana Sandoval: No. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm like trying to dance around it and be nice to my fellow Russian adoptees, but that's totally the case. It's like this gratitude and [00:44:00] yeah, it's, it goes hand in hand. It has to with this perception of we were saved from these stereotypes of Russia,
and maybe my case is just unique, and I'm seeing it through my other heart shaped glasses, but like my family knowing them has just verified for me this is not a better life.
This is just a different life. This is just an alternate life that I'm living.
Haley Radke: Wow. Thank you.
Svetlana Sandoval: Thank you.
Haley Radke: I, you mentioned earlier about the Adoption Network Cleveland. And I was going to recommend that because you wrote a piece for them, which is really great. We'll link to that in the show notes for folks.
Lost and Found Heritage, an International Adoptee Journey. And so you chronicle some of your story for us and some of the things you've changed your mind about upon, about, through reunion, but they have this Monday evening speaker series that I've gone to a few of them and I didn't realize [00:45:00] the whole thing is on YouTube, all the recorded discussions.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. That's awesome.
Haley Radke: Yeah. So they have fellow adoptees on, but they also have other folks on who've got books or documentaries or things. The ones I went to, there was a few therapists who've been on our show before who've been on and I went to see Ann Fessler who wrote The Girls Who Went Away and I really enjoyed that conversation.
That was in 2021 Svetlana it's pandemic times. But it's so good. Have you been to some of those?
Svetlana Sandoval: I have. Not as many as I would like, but I it was a few months ago now. Susan Kiyo Ito is on there, and they've had a really good lineup this year.
They've got some other good ones coming up, and it's free. It's virtual. You just sign up, register online, and like you said, they're all available afterwards, too, on the YouTube.
Haley Radke: So we'll link to the YouTube playlist of the ones that are recorded and their current and upcoming events so you can see who's coming, but I really like that they focus on just like a variety of topics that, oh, [00:46:00] many of us would be interested in whether it's searching or yeah, emotional support or I saw some, they've got some donor conceived things happening.
And yes very good. Okay, that's our joint recommendation. But what else? I know you had one more thing you wanted to tell us about.
Svetlana Sandoval: I wanted to recommend Michelle Zauner's memoir. People might know her as jbrekkie or from the band Japanese Breakfast. Her memoir is Crying in H Mart, and it's not adoptee specific, but her memoir is about her connection through her heritage food, and she talks about the imposter syndrome of when you lose a biological family member not feeling fully your heritage enough to fit into those immigrant spaces anymore, and it just really resonated with me, and I'd like, think it's a good resource for other adoptees who feel that imposter syndrome in their heritage.
Haley Radke: Is there something that you think, I'm going to talk about food again, is like traditionally Russian that you're like, [00:47:00] I know this is like their favorite thing, but like I can't. I should though because I'm Russian.
Svetlana Sandoval: Totally. Luckily, I actually have genuinely enjoyed things. Most of the things that I've made, there is this recipe I have not made yet.
It's this like fish milk casserole. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm going to make it eventually, but we'll see. And my uncle recently showed me this it's like very Soviet era food. I don't know how else to describe it it's like chicken Jell O in a mold and it's literally like chicken, shredded chicken and Jell O.
Haley Radke: Reclaim your heritage, if you must.
Svetlana Sandoval: I think I'll just save that. I'm like, I'll wait for that one. You can make that when I go there. I'm not gonna do the jello and chicken, but yeah,
Haley Radke: Oh good. I'm glad I asked. All right. So where can we connect [00:48:00] with you online? If we would like to see photos of you trying fish milk casserole,
just kidding. Those aren't there. Those aren't there.
Svetlana Sandoval: I do. I mostly share like on my Instagram about like me exploring my heritage through food and stuff. That's my primary platform. And I'm @mynameisstill_Svetlana. And then I will also leave you my email address to put in the show notes.
Haley Radke: Okay. Awesome. Thank you.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah. Thank you.
Haley Radke: It's been so good getting to know you today. I've really enjoyed.
Svetlana Sandoval: Yeah, no, it's absolutely been an honor. Thank you so much. I am just honored to be your first Russian adoptee. So thank you for having me.
Haley Radke: Thank you.
Thank you so much for hanging with us today. I really loved my conversation with Svetlana and I actually follow her on [00:49:00] Instagram. I found a lot of amazing, interesting adoptees on Instagram. So if you want to follow along with what's happening with Adoptees On and any new show news, we will post that on Instagram.
You can find us @adopteeson and if you know another adoptee, perhaps one that is also from Russia, would you consider sharing this episode with them? They'll probably find it super helpful. And thank you so much for listening and bearing with my voice and my little pup noises in the background.
Thank you for listening. Let's talk again very [00:50:00] soon.
