135 [Healing Series] How Trauma Affects Reunion
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You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our healing series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee.
Last week, we addressed cross-cultural intergenerational trauma, and we are continuing that theme today with Marta Sierra Drachenberg. She is back and, oh my goodness, this is so good. I can't wait to get to it. I just wanna mention before we get started, though, that we do mention sexual assault. So please keep that in mind when you're deciding whether or not now is the best time for you to listen. And if you do have little ones around, please do put your earbuds in, because this is an adult conversation.
Okay, let's listen in. I'm so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On, Marta Sierra Drachenberg. Hi, Marta!
Marta Isabella Sierra: Hi, Haley.
Haley Radke: I can't wait to talk to you, again, today. I am so excited and I just, I forgot to do this last time, but you are a therapist, but you specialize in internal family systems. And can you just give us a quick snippet of what that means?
Because it's a little different from some of the therapists that we've had on the show before and I think it's so valuable. It's such a valuable way, especially of looking at adoptee things. So please tell us a little bit about what IFS is before we get into what we're gonna talk about today?
Marta Isabella Sierra: Sure. So, IFS is an experiential therapy, which means that it's an experience; it's not just talking. And it's a way to access all the different parts of yourself, meaning that we all are really multiple—we have lots of different parts of ourselves that feel lots of different ways, and have lots of different beliefs, and lots of different reactions to things. And then when you add trauma in the mix, that have been affected in different ways, and then parts that are protecting the parts of us that have been traumatized…And it's just a whole world in there. And the goal of IFS therapy is to get yourself (your authentic self, or your heart–however you wanna think about that) in a really solid relationship with all of your parts, so that you can facilitate healing. And feel more connected, and less dysregulated, and ideally move through triggers in a different way. Experiential therapy can also help build new neural pathways in the brain, which is really what's so hard about healing preverbal trauma in the first place.
Haley Radke: When you were first on the podcast and you taught us about it, it was so, so interesting. So, if any of what Marta just talked about is interesting to you, go back and listen to her episodes 69 and 71. And she really gives us a deep dive into IFS there. Thank you.
Okay, so we left off and we were talking about how different reunion can be when it's international and really cross-culturally… We talked about a lot of different things last time and I wanna continue that conversation.
You mentioned that just even the nation of Colombia has trauma that has been going on for generations and that there's not really access in a regular…What am I just trying to say? There's not really access to mental healthcare as a regular practice and that shows. So can you talk a little bit about that in your reunion, and especially with your mother?
Marta Isabella Sierra: So, yeah. The first thing I'll say is that I had talked in the last episode about a second language barrier being a cultural language barrier. And I had said there were three. So the third one that we're gonna talk more about today is this mental health language as its own language.
So, even as my language skills got stronger, I really found myself without the words for all of this mental health speak, right? Like this “therapist talk” that I use so casually in English, I was really struggling to even—What words should I use? And then more importantly than that, Does that still even make sense? Does it register? Do you know what I mean?
Like you had said, “boundaries” in our last episode, and I didn't stop you because I knew I wanted to talk about it today. But that's nothing. That means nothing that may as well be Chinese, right? No one knows what a healthy boundary is. No one's ever experienced a healthy boundary. It's this totally foreign concept that I'm introducing. So, that's really hard.
I have worked my whole life, not only on teaching other people how to implement healthy boundaries, but trying to walk the walk, implement what I'm asking my clients to implement. And I found myself really without the ability to do that, because it's just not even understood. I couldn't even explain it if I wanted to.
Haley Radke: That's blowing my mind. I'm just like—my mouth is wide open because I'm like, Wow, that's not even translatable. So, what do you do then? How do you explain a choice that you might define as Okay, I've got a boundary with this specific thing. How do you explain that choice, then? They're–they don't understand that.
Marta Isabella Sierra: I think sometimes you just don't (similar to in English). If someone's not respecting your boundary, you don't keep explaining to them, right? You just say, “I'm not gonna do that.” So a lot of times it would end up just being like that: “I'm not gonna do that.” And not even bothering, really, to go into the “why.”
There's already so much miscommunication that can happen in these relationships. And certainly there were a lot of assumptions about why I was doing what I was doing all the time, which of course I was making, too. We're all just trying to figure each other out. I just learned that they're gonna make their assumptions about my behavior anyways, whether or not I try to explain it. So ultimately, in those high moments of stress, I'm gonna just have to do what's best for me and I'm gonna have to release control over what everybody thinks about that.
Haley Radke: That's so great. You sound like you have it together. I'm like, Oh, how do I do that?
Marta Isabella Sierra: And, so, the other thing is just that, we need each other. I know we talk about this all the time in your podcast. We talk about community all the time, but I just–I can't emphasize that enough–that what got me through the hardest parts of that year was the people in my life that have gone before me.
I have an amazing friend from Oregon who is older than me, has been in reunion longer, is from Colombia, and knows the culture. And I would have—I had maybe four video calls with her over the course of a year, but they were so essential. And she's a clinician. She's not a therapist, but she's been working in adoption for years and years and years. So she speaks that language with me, as well. And we would get into these really interesting discussions about, “Is it even ethical? To hold our Colombian families to American mental health standards, when they haven't had access to the education that we've had? When they haven't had access to the resources that we have?”
Can I even say, “You know, you're not respecting my boundaries. You're—it’s disrespectful and hurtful to me. I'm out.” Is that really ethical? And I don't have a concrete answer. All I can say is that having those discussions with her definitely allowed me a lot more compassion. I do, still ultimately, I do what I need to do for me, including the painful decision I made about my relationship with my brother. But it does help me in moments to remember that there's just so much history in my family, and in my country that I'm never gonna ever understand. And I have to remember that I don't have all the puzzle pieces, that there's so much going on that I can't see. And I need to honor that the same way I want it honored for me. When I do something that's not understood, I don't want it to—the assumption to be negative or for someone to assume they understand completely why I'm doing that. I want them to be curious. So if I'm wanting curiosity on their end, then I have to be willing to also be curious.
Haley Radke: Well, that's a huge question. That is really intriguing, and I'm not gonna go too far off track here, but just a rabbit trail from that statement, the ethics of holding my Colombian family to the same standards as Americans, because they don't have access to mental health supports or even the same “therapy language” (in quotation marks). And I'm thinking about how so many of our reunions have broken down and we talk about, “Oh, well you have to work on your own stuff first.” And lots of adoptees, and lots of first parents both haven't had any sort of therapy to deal with those things. And so I'm just, Hmm…this is an interesting question to ponder. Thank you for bringing that up.
Marta Isabella Sierra: Yes. And given that, I wouldn't— I'm so glad for all the work that I've done. It still was a really difficult situation a lot of the time. It was still hard to navigate things, but I was so grateful for all of the work I had already done and having the language of IFS (especially in really difficult situations) saved me.
So I guess that's an easy place to jump into what happened with my mom. So, I'm really, really close with my mom. I always have been; I feel really, really lucky. We're very connected. I think we always have been, even before I knew about her, even before I found her. We're very similar in a lot of ways.
We have a couple really different parts of our personality. One of the big ones is that she's very religious. Again, it's a really Catholic country. I sort of felt, like, really scared in the beginning. I remember telling her that I wasn't religious. I remember shaking and being nervous. We were just texting over WhatsApp, but I didn't know how she was gonna take it.
Overall, she's pretty good with it, but it comes up in these ways, because my mom's concept around her personal trauma is that she didn't have any trauma. And anything that happened to her, she's given up to God. And so, that's her defense mechanism around it, right? She's wrapped this thing around it and she won't touch it. She's very receptive to me talking about my trauma, and how our separation, and lots of things have affected me. She's fine with that, but there's just this block around what she's experienced.
And I'm not just talking about the trauma of my birth (which I'm a product of rape, so there’s a lot of trauma around me coming into the world). But she's experienced just so much more than that; I'm not gonna list it. It's—I try to walk that line of telling my story, versus telling her story. I feel fine disclosing the rape, because it's my origin story. She's experienced a lot of other trauma in her life, and this is how she survives it. And it's also how she's so loving and full of light anyways, despite it.
And so it's allowed us to be close and build this relationship that's very close. But I suppose, at some point, that was going to boil over. So, that happened in April on this big trip that I talked about in the last episode. It was a lot that I already talked about—two huge things. And so this is the last one, which is… So we had been staying in my aunt's house. I met a bunch of new family while we're there. So, as far as stressors on my mom's system, she's back where she grew up. She's back where she raised my brothers and sister. She's staying in the house of an ex-boyfriend who was (bleep) to her (and was kind of still being [bleep]). That's where some of my family was staying.
She's introducing me to a bunch of new family, which I can't imagine how vulnerable that was for her. And I think, more than she articulated out loud, she really wanted that to go a certain way. Of course, right? So obvious now, but I wasn't thinking about it then. Of course, I was in my own overwhelm of, I'm going to where my brothers and sister grew up. I'm going to meet all this new family. I was in my story while she was in her story.
And my relationship with my sister has always been very tense. She has a lot of stuff around me. I don't even want to talk about it a ton, honestly, but we have a very difficult relationship. And that was sort of moving towards a blowing point as well. And so because they were staying in a separate house together, they would often show up together and leave together. And so, my mom wasn't actually seeing how I was interacting with my new family, because when she would come around, my sister was with her.
And I would go away or I would shut down, or I would go hang out with the kids, or…there were a lot of animals there, too (I would go play with the animals). Because I was trying not to flip out. So, I was taking—this is like an example, right? I was doing my mental health self-care: taking space, using my skills, using connection. All of these things that I think are taking care of myself, that are viewed externally, culturally, as me being disconnected and antisocial.
I'm over here, like, I'm doing such a great job, right? And the perception of me is that I'm being disconnected and weird because the assumption is I'll spend every second with everyone all in the big group. And even just surface level, like every 10 people speaking Spanish at once for three hours–I can only take it for so long before I have to go lay down. It's just too much for me; I need a break. And so, that was like one light element that was going on, but it's like tension’s building throughout the week. Everyone's talking about everything we're doing, and everything that's happening.
It's just like that's very “Latin family,” like phone tree. I say something, and then I get a text from this cousin way over there that already heard about it, because it goes “tick, tick, tick,” down the line of whatever. It's nuts. Everyone tells everyone everything. There's a lot of that stuff going on.
So meanwhile, everyone's been talking about us all week. There's been so many things that could have been fixed with direct communication, early on… “Put your stuff in your suitcase every day” was an expectation that I didn't know was happening (that I would never do on my own), but would have adjusted easily.
So it's all festering, right? All week. Including my sister seeing that an opportunity has opened to really hurt me. So on the eighth day, we do this big family shoot (family photo shoot), which in Colombia is like, forever. It lasts forever. First, all the women, then all the men, then just the kids, then this family, then this family, then everybody, then now with the grandparents–it's crazy and it goes on forever. So that ends, and my sister calls me and my cousin and my little, my youngest brother over and starts just screaming at us.
It was the craziest thing I've ever experienced. About something that I'm not gonna even indulge the content, because honestly it didn't matter. She was upset about something that we did that had zero negative consequences. It was just the little snack that she needed to have her opportunity to flip out. This is also not out of the norm for her. And it's also not out of the norm culturally, bringing back in the cultural piece. You don't deal with your feelings, you don't deal with your feelings, you don't deal with your feelings; you explode, and then everything's–and then you just move forward. And then everyone just goes, “That was annoying.” And just carries on. It's just, it's so foreign to me.
So, first thing I do is physically back up, and then I'm texting one of my closest adoptee friends. And she's with me in the moment and I'm like, “My sister's screaming. Like, this is crazy.” And she's like, “Just take some space.” She's coaching me through it. (Thank you, Summer! I love you.). And so I'm sitting down now, but it's still going on. And it goes on forever, and it goes into this whole attack that is specifically–would be designed to make an adoptee go insane. Nobody wants me in this family, and if I'm not gonna be like the family, then I should get out. And just craziness, right?
And she's also screaming at me in Spanish, so I'm not even getting everything. I'm getting enough. All the kids are here. This is like a show, right? And she wants me to respond, and I'm not gonna take the bait. And I'm also choking back tears. I'm like, She will NOT see me cry. Right? I'm locked down. But I also froze, which is pretty rare, right? But we know trauma response is fight, flight or freeze. And that's not my usual go-to, but I was so overwhelmed that I froze. And I have a lot of regret about that, but I also have compassion that that's just what my amygdala decided I was gonna do in that moment.
So this goes on forever. My mom gets involved. It's like she whipped everyone up, right? It was just like this weird, crazy frenzy. So, eventually, it ended; things transpired over the night… It was just a really rough night. Of course, I broke down. I was crying all night. I’m talking to my friend. My partner's there. My partner was sleeping through this. He was upstairs, so then he wakes up to me sobbing and shaking in bed, and (poor thing) has to deal with me. And we don't feel welcome.
We wanted to leave, but it's the middle of the night, so we waited till morning. We go get breakfast; we go find a hotel to go to. We just had one more night there. It didn't make sense to move our flights or anything, so we just went to a hotel in town (which my brother helped us find). And so, meanwhile, my mom has been—my sister has still been stirring up my mom, which… It's an important moment to pause and say that my mom was 16 when she had my sister. My sister's older than me. They have an interesting kind of inverted relationship, which can often happen right when teenagers have babies. That there's a parentified child role with the child. So, my sister's kind of the matriarch of my family. She has a lot of…she takes care of everyone, like financially.
Most of my family (in the beginning of the year) lived in her house, which changed by the end of the year, which is interesting. But she's kind of the leader of the family, so she has this influence over my mom that's kind of maternal and interesting. So in certain cases, I think when my mom is a certain level of vulnerable, she can get under her skin and kind of whip her up a little bit. So she's whipped my mom up that like I've done something terrible and that I'm also acting terrible in response to it. So she's email—She's texting me, texting me, texting me. And I'm saying, “I don't want to talk. I'm too overwhelmed. I'm really, really, really, REALLY upset. Can you please just let me calm down?”
She shows up when we're taking our bags to go to the hotel, asked to talk to me. I said, “Fine. You have five minutes.” She just starts screaming, which (again) has never happened before. I've never seen this side of her, and she's just screaming at me and I'm like, “Nope, not today.” Right? I'm a little bit more with my faculties then I'm like, “Not today.”
I scream at my partner and I'm like, “Let's go.” We've got our bags and we leave. And she's yelling at me the whole time. So that was me really breaking a cultural norm. You stay and you take your verbal whipping. That's what you do as a child. “You take your punishment” is sort of how it's viewed. Like, “You be a good kid and take your punishment and sit here and deal with the shaming and the yelling.” And so by leaving–which I was doing to take care of myself, right? There's my healthy boundary, right? There's my self-regulation. It's seen as very rebellious. So she is now–if she was at an 11, she's now at a 19 and she is rapid texting me, just venom.
I never saw this side of her before. The cruelest things anyone's ever said to me in my entire life. She used so many things against me, attacked just everything about me. I'm not gonna even say the exact things, because I just… I still, now, even in the aftermath, I do feel protective of this side of her. That was just..it's a really cruel part of her. But I know it's a reaction to trauma, right? But she just went at me in a way that I couldn't deal with. I was laying on the ground in our hotel room, tremoring, sobbing, just trying to calm down my baby part. That was my only goal. I just kept saying, “You're okay. We're okay. You're okay. We're okay.” Just so dysregulated.
And I just couldn't believe it, and in those moments…I was really trying to just stay with what was happening for me and calm myself down. But of course there's other parts of me that are thinking and, I'm really feeling like I’ve lost her. I don't have my mom anymore. It really felt like, I don't know how I could ever trust her again, that she would say these things to me. Who even are you? It felt, Okay, if this is really you, then everything else was a lie. And then and I can't… okay.
And I have like my “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” parts that are like, We lived without a mom for 30 and a half years. We can do it again. We'll survive. We're not gonna give…, right? Like I'm already rallying the troops, right? I'm like, I will get through this. Which I know I could have, but I think that just goes to speak to how, and we're re-wounded or re-traumatized. How strong that impulse is to just shut the door.
Haley Radke: So your mom is texting you these horrible things?
Marta Isabella Sierra: Uh-huh. Eventually, she stopped. I never wrote back that day. I never responded at all. It just felt like she was out of her mind, which she was. She was completely out of her mind.
Haley Radke: So you're getting texts from your sister and from your mom?
Marta Isabella Sierra: No, my sister had given up at that point. The damage had been done that she wanted to inflict on me, which was to humiliate me in front of my whole family. And so I'm just…I'm, like, dying. It's really rough. And then we have this huge long journey back to Cali. We get back. At this point, I'm already having my usual things that I have when I have an extreme trauma response, which is like my digestive system is insane, wreaking havoc on my body.
Soon after that, I got really sick again, which was my fourth time in the hospital in Colombia. This time, it was different than the other times, though. And then ultimately we decided it was probably dengue fever, which is from the mosquitoes in Llanos. Which, if you grow up there, there's two strains of dengue fever. You get them each as a child and then you never get them again. But the emotional crisis, I think, perfectly set my body up to come down with something like this. So it's a days-long fever with a rash all over your body, and vomiting, and just all of it…It's super fun. I’m dealing with that as I'm dealing with all this emotional stuff and not talking to my mom, really, not being ready and really wondering, Is this it? Is this over?
And we still had three months left. What am I even doing here anymore? It just–it was really, really crushing. The interesting piece of aftermath was also that my little brother (my youngest brother), as a result of all of this, decided he didn't want to live with my sister anymore. So he had asked if he could stay with us for a couple weeks while he looked for a place (when we got back from that trip), and so of course we said yes. And so two weeks was actually three-and-a-half months. He moved out a week before we left in July. But that was a whole other element.
Haley Radke: This must feel like choosing sides, then. Like he's choosing your side?
Marta Isabella Sierra: Yes. Yeah. So, I was worried about that—and so just the whole system reconfigures, right? And I have my great uncle, who’s my abuelo's brother, was one of the few people that I reached out to. He's this really grounded voice of wisdom in my family. I know that my mom will listen to him. And we talked and even he, though… He's not wrong. I love him so much, but he (I wasn't ready for any of it, either)... His view was, “You know better, Marta, more about all of this. You understand trauma better. You have to be the one to forgive. You have to be the one to open your hand up.”
And I just wasn't ready at that point. So I did. I took care of myself the way that I know how to, in the face of no one really understanding that. I did it anyways. I took a lot of space. I told her I needed time, that I did not know when I was gonna be able to talk, that I felt really unsafe around her. I did articulate a lot about how violated I felt, and how dysregulated my… I talked to her about parts anyways. Even though she doesn't understand IFS, I told her, “My traumatized baby is feeling really unsafe. I can't be around you right now. I don't know when I'll be ready.”
Talking to my supports at this point was huge, of course, but ultimately it was about me having IFS in my life. About me having this language. Because what I had to sit with (what I'm still sitting with), is that part of my mom hates me. Part of my mom maybe even wishes that I didn't exist. I'm a physical reminder of her rape.
Even though I look way more like my mom than–I mean (I haven't even seen a photo), but I look… People call us twins. I mean, it's—there's not a lot of pictures of her when she was younger, but people that knew her when she was younger say that we're identical. So, I don't have that piece that some children who are products of rape have of looking like that person.
But that doesn't change the fact that I'm the physical evidence of what happened to her. And some of the cruelest things she said to me that day were specifically about how I came into this world and this piece that I've been secretly feeling so vulnerable about, right? That we had never processed, to weaponize it against me in a moment of vulnerability, I just—it feels so heartless. But then if I back up and put my clinical hat on, I know she was really triggered being there, right?
All of those stressors that I said before. Being in that environment, I know she felt really exposed, too. And it was just the perfect storm of triggers. And she lashed out, because there's so much pain inside of her that she hasn't healed, that she hasn't let out, and it— she unleashed on me. And while I don't think that that's okay, obviously I do understand why it happened.
And there came a point–I just missed her. Even though she hurt me so much worse than anyone's ever hurt me, I just—day after day, I was starting to miss her. And I was starting to wonder, Is this really how I wanna leave here? Am I not gonna–am I really not gonna make this repair? Am I really gonna give up on this? Am I really ready?
I do have those parts. I know I could survive it, but the same way that my lens on her parts and her trauma helps me with compassion, I also still strongly feel like my responsibility is to my parts. And my job is to take care of my traumatized little girl.
And the question is, “Do…?” (Many. I say one, like my baby, but really like I feel very fond towards my five-year-old and my adolescent part, too). So all these little girls that I'm responsible for. What's gonna serve their healing? Is it to lose her again or is it my job to make sure that they have their mom so that they can heal and they can feel safe?
So we met with my translator (my friend, that’s my translator) and called and after some, a lot of texting, and we met in person and we just, we talked a lot about some of the things that— There was a lot said in the aftermath that I was really upset about, too. And so just healing up some of those wounds. And really, I think ultimately what it was, I saw her fear, too. And I don't know if she could have survived losing me, again. I don't know if I could have survived losing her again. At some point, somehow that all became clear to me: that it wasn't necessarily about what happened that day, but it was about moving forward together, because to lose each other again, I think would've just been so detrimental to both of us.
And actually, my mom has a lot of heart problems, and (unsurprisingly) she had a lot of symptoms after this trip. Her heart was literally breaking. So I'm really protective, obviously, of her health and ultimately we moved through it. And by the time I left, a couple months later, we were pretty much back where we had started and now we're–I mean, we talk every day.
She texted me, “Good luck!” before I signed on with you. And yeah, I can't imagine my life without her. And I know that so many reunions break because there's unhealed trauma and things that happen that just feel too painful to survive. And we feel like we have to walk away. And I'm absolutely not saying, “Whatever, just deal with whatever happens to you in these relationships.” Take care of yourself.
Again, I'm telling this story in 10 minutes, but it really evolved over two entire months and there's a lot that I'm not speaking to, of course. And it was complicated, but I still (at the end of the day) I'm so grateful. And without IFS, I don't know how I could hold that truth: that this woman that loves me, would move heaven and earth for me, is so loving, also has a part of her that hates me.
But that's just true. That's just being a human that's experienced trauma. It's not black and white. It's not like she loves me or she doesn't. I know that she loves me, and there's a part of her that hates me because I'm the reminder. I'm the proof. And I have to do my own work around that, around accepting that.
Haley Radke: Can you say how long, thinking about things and processing, before you guys all met with the translator–how much space did you give yourself?
Marta Isabella Sierra: I think probably six weeks at least, maybe more? I can't remember exactly, but…
Haley Radke: That's the thing. I don't want to gloss over that. Because, it wasn't like, “Oh!,” and then the next day, “Okay, we met up.” No, this is a big process.
Marta Isabella Sierra: Yes. And I worked part-time when I was down there, but I really didn't have a lot going on. I said it–I mean, everything shifted. If I gave you what a week looked like before that trip and a week after–I also was grieving the loss of my brother that I talked about in the last episode.
So suddenly, I wasn't hanging out with him most of the time. Suddenly, my youngest (my baby brother) is living with us and I'm all messed up, right? And I don't really want him to see me like that. So I'm hiding in my room. But then he's like, “Where are you?” ” He's worried; he's so worried about me. I mean, he's never seen anyone... It's funny when I step back. He's never seen someone feel something and move through it, like in the moment, the way that I sob when I'm moving through something, I think it really jostles him like, “Are you gonna die?” And I'm like, “No, I'm just feeling my feelings. This is so normal.”
And Tyson (my partner), Tyson's just like sitting there, right? While I'm like (emotional crying), because he's just used to me. And my brother’s like, “Oh my God, are you okay?” And I'm like, “Yeah! I’m, you know, feeling all my feels.” So I didn't have a lot going on. I just–this was what I was dealing with. This was what I was talking about. This was what I was writing about. This was what I was feeling. And in and out of it, like we are in our process, I was also doing numbing stuff, and staring at Netflix. You can't be with it all the time, every second. But yeah, it was a while.
Haley Radke: Thank you for sharing that. And I think it's really helpful for us to see, really, a point where reunion could have just broken down for good. And then what you did–what you chose to do, instead of walking away. I think, so many of us, it's easier to just be like, “Hey, that’s it!” And just shut that box, because it's so painful to look at and… Yeah. Thank you for your wisdom in there. Is there anything else you wanna say to us about that processing? Anything else in this area before we wrap up?
Marta Isabella Sierra: I think, just that–and of course (I can't speak for everybody), I only know my mom. But I would say, trust the things that you do know, if you have done some of your work. I know that people can't hear things in an activated state, right? So it was weeks later before I even started having more conversations about it with her, and ultimately she did open up to my point of view. She did want to hear things. And even if her beliefs don't change, she was willing to listen. We still had difficult, important conversations. And so I think, and again–that's with that language barrier I was talking about, that's with the cultural barrier and the mental health barrier.
It's complicated. And you have to be tenacious about it. I think that to know that we may have to have the same conversation five times in five different ways, because there's so much that could be possibly getting lost in translation here. And I think, when we're raw, that's so hard, right? She sends me something and I don't know those words. And I put it through Google Translate and it hits me in the gut, right? I have to be willing to take a breath in that moment and say, “Can you say that another way? Is that really what you meant?” Instead of flipping out, which is so hard to do. I'm not, all of this is so effing hard. It's so hard, but I think it's ultimately worth it.
Haley Radke: I think one of the most insightful things that you shared with us today was just that line, that (we glossed over it), but you said, “I was in my story and she was in her story.”
And just how powerful that is to think about that, we’re sort of looking at everyone else thinking, “Oh, well, they know what’s going on for me.” But they don’t. People are in their own story.
I think that’s so valuable to pin that away in the back of your head so that you can come back and be like, Oh, they’re in their story and I’m in my story.
Thank you so much, Marta. I mean, truly, for inviting us into some very intimate and vulnerable moments in your story and going back to painful things—that comes at a cost. And so I'm very grateful that you're willing to share that with us, and I know it's gonna be so helpful to so many of us.
So, thank you. And where can we connect with you online?
Marta Isabella Sierra: My website for my practice is (old website link removed) and you can find an email for me on there (martasierralmhc [at] gmail [dot] com).
I did also want to say, since we were talking about IFS at the beginning, I wasn't thinking of doing any recommended resources. But I will put in a tiny plug for Jonathan Van Ness’ book Over the Top: A Raw Journey to Self-Love. His memoir came out (for anyone who watches “Queer Eye,” he is the hairstylist on “Queer Eye”). He has survived a tremendous amount of trauma. He has been in IFS therapy for years, and his memoir hugely integrates IFS and it's awesome. I listened to it on audiobook.
Haley Radke: Wow. That is so interesting. I had no idea. I think he has a podcast, too.
Marta Isabella Sierra: He has a podcast called Getting Curious. There's also an episode with Rick (Richard) Schwartz, the creator of IFS. It's so amazing to watch Dick interact with Jonathan's parts.
Haley Radke: Okay. Thank you for those recommendations. That is excellent. And I think– I love hearing you talk about IFS, because it's so unique. I mean, in my perspective it's so unique and I don't know. I haven't told you this I don't think, but I've heard from several listeners that they have started IFS since hearing your episodes.
Marta Isabella Sierra:Oh, that's so great.
Haley Radke:And not just that. I know of one who is a mental health professional and she started training in IFS, cuz she found it so interesting and helpful.
So you're making–Look at that! Marta: the Adoptees On IFS influencer.
Marta Isabella Sierra: Oh my God. I love it. I also have started working in adoption for the first time, since the last time I saw you. So since I've been back in Boston, I've been working at Boston Post-Adoption Resources, which is in Brookline, and we're doing really awesome work.
So if you're in the area, or in Massachusetts and you need resources, call us.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Don't you just feel so thankful when someone opens up and shares like that on the show? I truly am so grateful and I wouldn't be able to do the show without people being vulnerable, and teaching through their experiences. And also therapists who have this wealth of knowledge, and then actually applying it in real life.
This is a pretty valuable show. I'm just–I'm really grateful. Thank you so much again, Marta, for sharing with us. I truly—It's hard to know the impact of the podcast sometimes, because I only hear from a very small percentage of listeners (but I know there's thousands of you listening). But it's episodes like this and last week's that you just know, this will have an impact on someone else's reunion and helping them navigate. So, such an impact.
And if you want the show to continue and keep having an impact like this and hopefully helping save some reunions through understanding Marta's experience, and how you can learn from it, and you can look at, Ergh, what's wrong with mine? And how can we heal it? And work together to a new understanding of each other?
I mean, if you want that kind of value in the world, please consider partnering with my podcast and go to adopteeson.com/partner to support the show. It is so meaningful to me when you sign up. You're saying, “I want this show to exist in the world. I want other adoptees to have access to this information. Other family members, members of the constellation to be able to hear about the adoptee experience and hopefully get us on the same page.”
I just—I can't do the show without your help. If you have had that experience and have learned something from the podcast, please go to adopteeson.com/partner and check out all the ways you can support the show.
And right now, as I have been telling you for the last few weeks, we are doing an Adoptees On(ly) Reading Challenge. It's been so, so fun, and you can access that when you go to adopteeson.com/partner. Okay, thanks so much for listening. Let's talk again, next Friday.
