38 [Healing Series] Finding Allies
/Haley Radke: You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our Healing Series, where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee. Today we answer a listener question sent in from Kate. Let's listen in.
Lesli Johnson is a fellow adoptee and licensed therapist who works to help other adoptees connect the dots of their story and live authentically. Welcome back, Lesli.
Lesli Johnson: Thanks, Haley. Great to be here.
Haley Radke: I'm so happy to chat with you again today, and I actually have a question from a listener, so I'm going to read that to you.
“I have a suggestion for an episode topic: talking to significant others or friends about your feelings about being adopted. I'm not married, but I'm in a serious relationship. My partner is not adopted and doesn't have any experience with adoption. He's very supportive of me and genuinely listens to me when I need to vent about adoption stuff, but even still, I often wind up feeling like I have to justify my feelings in our conversations. Not because he's being antagonistic, but just because he's coming from a different perspective, and I think it's hard to put yourself in an adoptee's perspective if you've never lived it. I guess my question is: what are some strategies for having real conversations about adoption with people in your life that don't have experience with adoption? Obviously, it's always best if you can talk to a therapist, but ideally you should be able to talk to your partner or close friends when something agitates you and you want to talk about it. Any advice for how to teach a non-adopted partner or friend to be an ally?”
So, can you answer us, but also maybe talk to our partners a bit?
Lesli Johnson: That's a great question, and I think as adoptees– all people want to be seen and validated,I think sometimes for adopted people, we want it even a little bit more, our experience to be understood and seen. I think there are few ways that we can get the important people in our life– depending on who they are, but it sounds like this person's partner has a willingness to be there for her and understand. So maybe sharing beyond just educating about her own experience or her own feelings. Maybe this person would want to be included in listening to your podcast. “Let's listen to this together and have a conversation about it afterward.”
Or maybe this person's friends or partner, or any adoptive person's friends or partner, would be open to reading some of the must-read books for adoptees and having a conversation about it to better understand.
And I think, at the end of the day, no one really– it would be like me trying to understand what it feels like to be a man and fully understanding that, or my partner trying to understand, you know, fully embracing and understanding the experience of being a woman, or me as a white woman fully understanding what it's like to be an African-American male, or vice versa.
So I guess that's a long way of saying that there's no way for a person to fully understand the experience of being adopted unless they themselves were adopted, but that through education and support we can help our allies better understand us and our experience and how it shaped us. What do you think? How would you answer that question? I'm curious.
Haley Radke: Well, when you're talking about that, I'm thinking, ‘You know, it's taken my husband a long time to understand why I am the way I am.’ And now that he has listened to the podcast –he's not listened to all the episodes, he's always like at least a month or two behind. So, you know, who knows when he'll hear this? Hi, Nick!-- I guess he's understanding more and more, but it just takes a long time, Lesli. I really think it takes a long time, and you're right. Like he's never fully going to get it. He just isn't. If you're not adopted, you don't understand what it's like to not know your heritage, to not know who your parents are. He's never going to understand that. It's just impossible.
Lesli Johnson: Yeah. I just recently got back from a vacation with my partner's family. He has two brothers, and just seeing everyone in a room with their parents, and then some of their children, and all the genetic similarities, not only in the physicalities, but also the mannerisms. It didn't make me sad, it just kind-of was another time when I thought, ‘Wow, I don't have that.’ I mean, I do know some of my biological relatives, and I do see similarities, but not in the context of, you know, a big room over a family meal.
And I think, like you said, it takes a while and we have to be patient. I think we have to be patient and empathic just as we're wanting that same patience and empathy, you know?
Haley Radke: Definitely. So you're describing that situation and I'm thinking, ‘Yeah, it was just like that for me at a family event a few weeks ago.’ And then later, I can go to Nick and say, “You know, I felt kind of triggered because your dad was talking about how much so-and-so resembles so-and-so, and all these similarities, and every time I hear that, I think, ‘I have a loss there.’” And so when I tell Nick more and more of those examples, his ears get attuned to that as well.
Lesli Johnson: Yeah, and I think it's what our triggers are, and being able to share those vulnerable parts with the people that we care about, in hopes that sharing those things, our partners, our friends, will respect that and be very mindful. For me it's separations and transitions. And I've worked really hard to not be so vulnerable there, but I want some people in my life to know that separations and transitions are really, really difficult for me sometimes. So I want someone to be empathic to that, just as I would when they share with me their vulnerabilities.
Haley Radke: Well, that's such a great tip. If we know those specific things that are really difficult for us, sharing that with your partner and just kind of explaining, you know, you can say, “Separations are really hard for me because my story started with rejection.”
Lesli Johnson: Or with a separation!
Haley Radke: Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, that's a great idea.
Lesli Johnson: It requires us to have done our work though, to be able to articulate that, what our triggers– right?
Haley Radke: Absolutely, yeah. Are you saying I have more work to do?
Lesli Johnson: No, it's a process and I think the process is ongoing, and that's a good thing.
Haley Radke: So what are, like, the top three books we could get a partner to read if they were super interested?
Lesli Johnson: I mean, one of my top ones now –I certainly have many of the books on adoption– but I think a great one would be Anne Heffron's book You Don't Look Adopted. I think that's a great one. There's parts of it that are funny, there are parts of it that are sad, but at the end of the book, you do have an essence of– of course it's her story, but I know you've read it, and I've read it, and I know other people that have read it, and we all take little bits and say, “Oh, yeah, right. I felt this way.” You know, there are other books. I think The Primal Wound is a great one. I think it's maybe not the first one I would recommend for someone who wasn't adopted, but certainly great information.
Haley Radke: Well, even if you as an adoptee are reading through that, you can say, “Can you just read this chapter, or these couple pages? Because this is my experience.” Because yeah, I agree, “Can you read this huge book and it's kind of dry?...”
Lesli Johnson: Yeah! Or watching movies that have an adoption theme and having a conversation about it afterward. Again, listening to episodes of your podcast or parts of your podcast that really resonate with the adoptive person and then being able to say, “Will you listen to this with me? I'd really love for you to hear this perspective because I really agree with it,” or, “I really felt that way when I was younger.” Or, “These are some of the fears I have.” Whatever material is relevant.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much, Lesli. That was really helpful. How can we connect with you online?
Lesli Johnson: You can connect with me through my website, www.yourmindfulbrain.com, and that has all my information.
Haley Radke: Great. Thank you so much for your help today. Thank you.
Lesli Johnson: Thank you, thank you. I always enjoy being here.
Haley Radke: This episode was brought to you by my phenomenal Patreon supporters. If you're looking for a place to find further adoptee support, I have a secret Facebook group for adoptees that is only available to my Patreon supporters. I take monthly pledges to help sustain my work in producing episodes just like this one for you. Visit Adopteeson.com/partner to find out all the details.
Today, maybe you consider sharing this episode with the person you'd like to have be your adoptee ally. Listen to it together, and then share with them about how they can best support you. Thank you for listening. Let's talk again next Friday for the season finale of Adoptees On with Jessenia Parmer of I Am Adopted.
