237 [Healing Series] Attachment
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/237
Haley: This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to Adoptees On the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. This is a special episode in our healing series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee. Before we get started, I wanted to personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today on Adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also this show to support more adoptees around the.
On today's episode, we are discussing attachment theory, attachment styles, and a new model To me, the nested model of attachment. Let's listen in.
[upbeat music]
I'm so pleased to welcome back to adoptees on Marta Sierra, welcome back, Marta.
Marta: Hi Haley.
I am really excited to talk to you. We've, we've unlocked so many things for folks in our conversations. I always feel like you have some super, super wise things to say to us. And today we're going to talk about attachment.
So can you go into that a little bit about, you know, we hear the, like attachment styles or, you know, I don't know, they're a little bit of a buzzwordy thing in the last what, decade maybe.
Mm-hmm.
Haley: Can you talk a little bit about what that is and why it's important for adoptees to understand that?
Marta: Absolutely. I, in the episode we did on romantic relationships, I presented heavily from the book Attached, which I still love and still promote around attachment styles. In kind of a really one dimensional way, you know, and I, I think that we humans, when I say that we human beings, we love categories, right?
We love astrology categories. And are you an introvert or an extrovert, right? All, we love labels and we like to box things in. And so I think identifying with one attachment style and kind of trying to figure out that can get kind of limiting and, I wanted to come back and talk more about attachment. A, to talk about the things that I've learned since we last recorded, and also to kind of offer this more both /and vibe versus either/ or.
Really that this is so layered and complicated and doesn't have like a one thing that like, okay, I'm this and so then I have to do this. It's what that means. Because our attachment style, my definition of that, my like loose definition of that is, how our systems function in relationship. What parts of us show up in relationship, and what's challenging about being in relationship? Because again, as adoptees, our wound is relational. It happened in our first relationship, and so relationships in and of themselves become a very unsafe place. That's a lot to heal. And the more we can understand about the wounding, the better we can support our own healing.
Haley: Oh, that's really impactful. I, I think, I mean, there is something to the labels that helps us understand, so coming to it from a place of both, and I really, I love that you said that because even, even as we're first kind of processing adoption and what the impact it's had in our life, right. One of the first things is coming to "Oh. It was like such a blessing. Also there's some loss", right? And then we, you know, some of us move past that to, oh, I just see the loss or whatever. But coming at it as a multifaceted approach, so this is really interesting that you're bringing that to attachment.
Marta: You know, and of course, like the big kind of polarity it feels like if we're just going from this categorization lens is avoidant people on one end and anxious people on the other end, you know, and the avoidant people run away and the anxious people run towards. Super binary, right? And, and, and opposing that, that the anxiously attached people are mainly concerned about connection and that the avoidantly attached people are mainly concerned about autonomy.
But we, we all have both of these needs. We all have dual needs for both connection. I'm gonna read a quote in a moment. She also uses the word communion for connection, communion, and for autonomy. And it's just how our systems functioning in a given moment is more about what feels more important to our nervous system maybe.
But we all have both of these needs. So she talks this both/ and. Sorry, I'm saying she and I have not introduced what I'm teaching from today. There had never been a book about attachment in polyamorous and non-monogamous relationships. But this book came out last year by Jessica Fern. It's called Polysecure.
It's an incredible resource. The first half of the book, she's teaching about attachment in general, and the second half of the book, she's applying that specifically to polyamorous and non-monogamous dynamics. Of course, I sought this because I am polyamorous, but as soon as I read this material, And even before that, I bring the values that I've learned from living Polyamorously to all my clients now. I disclose often my relationship style just to be transparent about it. And I say, you know, I'm not trying to convert you anything, but I'm gonna bring you the things that I've learned because the things that I've learned living this way and loving this way have benefited all of my relationships.
Friendship. Familial. Acquaintances even, like, it's really changed the way that I approach a relationship. And so I am bringing this to your audience today because I believe these learnings about attachment benefit you no matter how you're choosing to live in love. So this is Jessica Fern that I'm reading right now from Polysecure around holding these two aspects as a both/and.
"When I began working with these aspects of autonomy and connection within myself, I came across the dilemma of how to bring these two poles together. Initially, when I conceived of these drives as existing on a spectrum, they often felt in opposition to each other with only one need or drive being attainable at a time, usually at the expense of the other.
How could I inch myself more towards communion without compromising my integrity? And how could I move more towards my independence without compromising my connections? So when in doubt I've learned it can be useful to switch to metaphors. Instead of seeing these needs and attachment expressions as existing on a continuum, two dimensional space in which you can only occupy one position at a time, what if we conceive of the needs for autonomy and connection as the two reigns of secure functioning. When riding a horse we two rains to control and direct the horse. If we want to turn left, we tighten our grip to tug on the left reign simultaneously loosening with the other reign we do the opposite to move right.
The terrain ahead is constantly changing and so the rains in our hands are constantly readjusting. With time and practice, we gain the ability to simultaneously tighten and loosen reigns without tightening so hard that we hurt or jerk the horse or loosening so much that the communication and direction are lost.
Whatever, to best respond to whatever arises in front of us day to day or even moment by moment, we sometimes need to tighten up on the reigns of autonomy while loosening the reigns of connect. In other moments, we tighten the connection reigns, moving in closer to our partners while releasing the autonomy."
Right? That all of this is ultimately about attuning to ourselves first, and then responding accordingly with how we're interacting in our relationships.
Haley: It, it makes so much sense that this would apply to any relationship, romantic or otherwise and I can see why you have been teaching this to your clients. Yeah. Wow. So specifically for adopted people, we have all these relationships with maybe 2, 3, 4 families. I mean, there's
Marta: Yes!
Haley: So many different people that we are trying to build connection with or remove connection. Yeah. I could totally see why you think this is so impactful to know.
Marta: And so my view of attachment styles has really shifted to this more idea of like flexible states of being, reflecting how a person's system is functioning moment to moment, and also relationship dynamic to relationship dynamic. So one thing I love that of course, Jessica Ferns bringing in, is you can be securely attached in one relationship and anxiously attached in another.
And again, right, if we like release the romantic piece of this too, that's true about families. That can be true, you know, you could see in families, every kid has a different attachment to mom. It's the same mom, but it's different kids, so the relationship dynamic is different, and so I love that expansion of ...that I'm not just one thing, and that how I'm responding in different situations is also important information for me about if I feel safe in this or what I might need for support, and that it can just be this really fluid thing versus a concrete thing that we can't change. If it's fluid, then we have power and control and we can be in control of our healing and lives in a different.
Haley: If it's fluid, we can have control. That's, oh my gosh, that's really interesting to think about because I, I don't know. I keep picturing on like, in talking about reunion, like holding on for dear life. Don't leave me again. Oh my God. Don't leave me again. Again. Yeah. Okay. And the push away, right?
Yeah. The like, we need a time out. It's too much we, it's too much to process. We need, okay. I could see both of them. Mm-hmm.
Marta: Right. Right. So in that relationship where the stakes are super high, your system is responding from that stress response more, meaning your attachment style might skew more toward the extremes versus, you know, your primary relationship with your husband right, might still be in a very different place because it's totally different dynamic and your internal sense of safety is different. So the way that you function in your attachment style will be different.
Haley: I've heard from a lot of a different adoptees who just struggle in romantic relationships or in just friendships.
Marta: Mm-hmm.
Haley: How can understanding this. Help those folks who really struggle to maintain friendships, let's say.
Marta: I, I think the more, again, we know about what we need, right? So if it's not my fault, you know, if I'm not completely broken, then how my attachment system is functioning, it's just a reflection my feeling of safety, right? So the question then becomes, what do I need to feel safe in relationships? Like what do I need from friends, family, partners, and how can I advocate for that versus without any of this information, right? We're just kind of along for the ride.
Haley: I think a lot of. Scared of that part, speaking up and advocating for ourselves.
Marta: Mm-hmm.
Haley: Because then once we've said the thing that we need, if we don't get it, it's like it's official rejection. Not just, oh, maybe they just didn't cure me properly. I don't know.
Marta: It has to be wrapped in compassion first, right? That why this is hard for me is not my fault, and I. Am worthy and deserving of rich relationships in my life.
It has to start from that, which I think maybe understanding the depths of the wound, ideally bring in compassion, which can lead me into talking about the nested model of attachment. Jessica presents us this nested model of attachment that I had never seen before or heard about before I read her book.
Haley: Because everybody else has that binary that you were sort of talking about right at the beginning.
Marta: Right.
Haley: So we're either on one or the other or in the middle.
Marta: Yes. And this model, this nested model of attachment isn't, it isn't about categorizing, it's about looking at what are the factors that affect our experience of attachment? What are all the layers. Versus the old attachment models just looked at child and early childhood and infancy. What happened here? And then it's defined and that's it, right? All of this concreteness where there's actually incredible depth and complexity and just so many factors.
So I'm gonna read what she says about the nested model and trauma, and then I'm gonna take us through like, what does that mean for us as adoptees?
"Attachment unfolds over multiple levels of the human experience. When referring to different levels of experience, I am pointing to the different dimensions or aspects of our human experience; self, relationships, home, local communities and culture, societal and the global or collective. These different levels may seem separate and different from one another, yet they are all interconnect.
With each level acting as an important ingredient to our experience and informing any given moment as well as the decisions we make. To offer a simple example, if I'm looking to buy a new car, there are several different facets or levels of my life that can influence my decision. At the self level, I might think about which car most appeals to me based on my individual preferences, likes, dislikes, needs, and what I can afford.
If I expand beyond my personal perspective to the relational level, I will consider which car would be best for my family, including my son's needs. Additionally, the cultural level informs what kind of car I would consider purchasing based on how I do or do not want to be perceived by others. The range of cars I have access to in the US falls under the societal level, and considerations such as electric versus gas come under the global or collective level.
In discussion of the nested model of attachment, I'll refer to the different facets, dimensions, or perspectives of our lives that coalesce into the whole of our experience, even if we're unaware of them."
So, right, even we were just talking about identity in the last episode. And so even though we don't, of course, everything I'm about to say, we don't understand as kids all of these layers, and yet it's effecting us every day, every minute, nonetheless, with or without our conscious understanding. Right?
So, okay, from an adoptee lens, the self level of our attachment wound, very obvious, right? The personal separation. The separation trauma, the severing of that, that relationship. Relational includes all of our other relational wounds, right?
Which we've named a little bit before, but that there, any other, so any other relational wounds that we accrue after birth- that's complications in family relationships, that's when your best friend at school says she doesn't like you anymore and she won't sit with you in second grade, right? And you cry all the way home. All of these relational wounds are compounding that first wound.
And then we go to the next level out of the home level where we know we can experience right neglect and abuse and that's gonna contribute to our sense of attachment and and security in the world.
And then we go one bigger local communities and culture. You know, I've talked a lot with you last time about transracial adoptees, especially, right? How our bodies are at risk in white communities. These pieces. And also, we know church culture can sometimes be perpetuating the savior narrative. That's something some of us were raised in and that that affects our sense of attachment to community.
And then we balloon out from there to societal level, right? Which is where we get the happy sunshine adoption narrative from every angle, right? So we have societal level denial, gaslighting, erasure of our experience, of our lived experience.
How does that not severely affect a person?
And then we go up bigger to global collective where we have the upholding of worldwide selling of babies. And colonialism and capitalism and white supremacy, right? All of these large systems that intensely affect the adoption industry. And so we have been in living with all of that every day.
Haley: How do we make it, honestly?
Marta: Because we're badass fighters.
Haley: Oh my gosh. Okay. I see the nest.
Marta: So without this, yeah, the nest exactly right. You see the nest.
Haley: We're gesturing wildly and no one can see us. Very good on audio. Very good.
Marta: I'm colombian. I talk with my hands. They're always missing my hand gestures. So ideally, right. Knowing all of this allows us to have an incredible amount of compassion for why it's hard to trust.
Haley: Okay. I'm connecting the dots now.
Okay, so moving from blaming our attachment on like, oh, we're somehow wrong in attaching cuz we're too far to this side or this side. Now we're looking at it from, there's these multiple layers of attachment. We've either learned are safe or not.
Marta: Yes.
Haley: And at every level there are unsafe messages given to us.
Marta: Yes.
Haley: Okay. Makes sense.
Marta: Makes sense.
Haley: Have I connected the dots?
Marta: Yes. You, you connected them beautifully. So you know, after all, saying all of that. And how challenging relationships can be for us as you name, not just with romantic partners, but in friendships and with family. Why on earth would I choose to have multiple relationships at the same time? Would be an understandable question. You know, why? Why would an adoptive person with an attachment wound want to be polyamorous? And. That's a valid question and it's, it's not for everybody. You know, whenever I speak about this publicly, I always highlight this is not for everybody. It's, it's a lot of work and it is more inherently insecure.
So the structure of monogamous relationships is inherently secure. And, you know, she talks about this in the book and the structure of a polyamorous dynamic is inherently insecure. So it is absolutely an added level of risk and fear and leap- taking, and I believe, well, because the only way to do that in a healthy way is to be deeply rooted into yourself.
I think what I like about it, because, I like being backed into a corner healing wise and being like really forced to like walk into the center of my wound. That's just who I am as a vibe. You don't have an option to not do your work. The only way to be successful living in this relationship style is to be really securely attached to yourself first, and that's the piece that can benefit everybody no matter your relationship style or the structure of your life.
Haley: So are you a procrastinator who needs the time pressure of the paper is due at midnight and so I'm gonna start when I know this is the only amount of time I have.
Marta: Never started a paper before 6:00 PM the night before. That's correct.
Haley: Okay. Okay. I see you. I see you. Okay, so, this is so funny to, to look at relationships that way. Your, you're, you said, backed into a corner of you have to do the work. Okay.
Marta: You have to do the work. So I, I believe that there's a potential for even more healing, right? If, if developing a secure bond with one romantic partner has the potential to create a lot of healing for us, then multiple relationships ideally hold even more healing. The capacity for more healing because of the expansiveness, and it also really just requires you to be accountable to yourself. And so what that means, I think in good times, right? In good times is really easy to argue why, why polyamory? Because in good times, I'm receiving so much love, so much connection, so much comfort, so much community.
You know, I believe that adoptees have these deficits for love and care. We went without so much for so long and whatever that is for you individually. But I know that we just generally as a community, carry a long history of unmet needs. I sort of have a visual of my own unmet needs, and I don't think I'm ever gonna fill in that hole, and that's okay.
But this is a way for me to kind of get, get more filled in. In the undetermined amount of time I have on this earth to pursue healing. It's an, it's a way to influx my system with love and support and learning.
And in bad times. Is it brutal? Yeah, it's super brutal. Going through multiple breakups at once or I don't know. There there is the capacity for triggers that are on a level that you had not previously known. And still in the bad times, I'm working with my wound so directly and there are, I've just learned so much. I, I can't say I regret anything. Even the most painful things I've experienced since living and loving this way.
It's tilling the soil. It's, I can feel that I'm transforming again and again into more of my authentic self.
Haley: Can you extend that out for folks who it's not, they're not interested in that, it's not for them, into how do you decide to do that, like on a friendship level? Because you know, I think we've talked about estrangement before and sometimes I think I've heard people be like, oh yeah, I heard that. And then I was like, great, I'm gonna cut everybody off. And it's not really what we were going for with those conversations, because sometimes it is easier to just be like, okay, you're dead to me.
Marta: Right?
Haley: So how can folks take on this level of like learning about their wound and leaning into those things when it becomes difficult in relationship, be it friendship or familial or romantic, but we'll just take it out like a level. What do you think about that?
Marta: I, yes, I would love to share about that. I, I really enjoy talking about, again, I, the ways that this has shifted how I approach all of my relationships. So my, my oldest person in my life that that's, In my life the longest is my best friend. We met when we were 13 years old, so we've been in friendship for, oh God, 26 years, something like that.
And, and we're very different in, in a lot of ways, and we're similar in other ways, and we've made very different life choices other than we're both therapists. Shocking. And our friendship has hit different rough patches over all of those years that we've always moved through and we hit another one last year.
And instead of shutting down and feeling rejected and walking away and losing this person, you know, I don't have many people that have been with me that long because of all of my transformations personally, and she holds some history that nobody else does, and she's incredible also. But we decided to really look at all of the hard stuff and have a long dinner and long conversation about what's our relationship now?
What do we want it to be? What do we both have bandwidth for? Really clarifying those things, you know. What do you really have time for. What can you commit to? What do, what do we want this friendship to look like now at this stage of our lives? And what does it mean to each other? And are we being clear with each other about what it means and what we have to give and what our expectations are. We don't have these conversations in any of our relationships. And again, this is something polyamory has trained me into to have these conversations with new partners, but I've learned to have them also with family, with friends, with coworkers, maybe even, about what are we doing here?
Is it working for both of us? Is this what we want it to be? What do you need from me? What do I need from you? And we just shifted the whole thing. We like pulled it apart and we put it back together in the way that works for us right now. And we're not talking about this, we're not talking about how long-term friendship also requires work and effort and vulnerability and boundaries.
Haley: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's much easier to walk away than to do the work, right? So yes, I've done it. I've done it. Not pointing fingers, cuz I've definitely been there. So if folks are hearing you share about this and thinking, okay, I'm kind of interested in that, I don't know, like I'm really new to understanding anything about polyamory.
So forgive if I'm not using the right language. I guess like would someone know ahead of time, like they would know they were queer, that this was something they're interested in? Or is it something people just go into and explore? I dunno. I'm struggling, Marta. So help me.
Marta: I think I've got you. Or, and if I don't have you, you're making me think of something else I wanted to say anyways, which is okay.
Haley: Okay.
Marta: If we were to go through the nested model of attachment around queerness or around polyamory or alternative relationship styles, right. We would find a similar level of wounding on every level. From self to all the way to global, right? And so again, I think it, it's so hard to discover these truths about ourselves when they weren't even presented as options. And maybe still are not being presented as options depending on where you live and the culture you live in still now in the, the community that you live in. You know, it's not safe to be either of these things in a lot of parts of the world still. And yet, I think it's sometimes it's, you know, hearing this, I mean, there'll be people listening to this that go, "Uhhhhhhhhh," like, and everything will slow down and start to churn and, and they'll start asking some big questions.
Because again, this brings me back to the importance of representation. You know, if we don't know something's a thing, how can we even try on whether or not it might fit for us? And we don't have healthy representation of polyamory really still.
Haley: Well. And I think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's way more people who are in your community that aren't out with it. Even in North America, where it is slightly more accepted. But I'm sure there's lots of folks that have peers in their life that if they came out as polyamorous, they would be shocked and you know, All the reactions people may give that are unwelcome. So yeah, there's, there's more folks out there than we know.
Marta: Absolutely, I am, I feel very privileged to be as out as I am, to be as public as I am and to feel safe doing so. I feel like that is a great deal of privilege. So, yeah, that's my little sending love to any parts that aren't disclosing, you know. Do what you need to do to feel safe. Mm-hmm. You know, there's, I think with attachment wounds, right?
Something we can be really prone to experiencing in, in any relationship is jealousy. Right. Whether that's like jealous of your siblings, jealous of your friends that they have other friends, God forbid. And, and of course shows up in our romantic relationships.
Haley: Uhhuh.
Marta: But you know, when you ask again,
Haley: Sorry. That's very relatable. I, when, when my friends are doing things with other p... I'm like, excuse me? I, yeah.
Marta: Yes.
Haley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Marta: So. You know, another way this looks is ... I live with my chosen sibling. They're a really, really important person in my life, and in the past year they've, their personal life just got a lot fuller, pretty fast.
It happened kind of fast, and so all of a sudden they weren't home hardly at all. And we were missing our sibling time, which we hadn't had to schedule because we were both just home a lot and we would organically do our rituals and our things that we love to do together. And, you know, I really felt that loss.
I felt that physical loss of them not being in this space. And the jealous feelings of like, oh, well, and you, oh, you did that with, with your partner, huh? Instead of me, you know? And I was starting to feel all those salty feelings. And because of how I approach a relationship now instead of Maybe that being a thing I never say, or a thing that drives a wedge or I start acting out so that they feel what I feel.
You know, I just talked to them about it. and I shared my feelings and we figured out a schedule. We decided, okay, we have to start also scheduling sibling time. Very polyamorous thing to do. So, you know, we schedule our sibling dates like you would schedule time with anybody else important in your life. So that I know, right, in my bones that I still very much matter to my sibling, that I'm a priority and that I will not be cast aside just because they have other relationships, whatever those relationships are.
Haley: Mm-hmm.
Marta: Right? And so now I get to feel safe in the dynamic because I was vulnerable and because I openly communicated about my feelings.
Haley: I appreciate you saying that. It's a great example and I think a lot of this, the vulnerability, it takes a lot of bravery to be the initiator of these conversations, and you are opening yourself up to like, well, this is weird. Why do we have to talk about this? Like, of course we're here, you know? So can you give just an example of language, like can you pretend like we haven't connected as much as you'd like and you just wanna open up the conversation with me, can you just model that for folks because it doesn't have to be a big scary thing.
Marta: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, Haley, I, you know, I know we had our last couple coffee dates you had to cancel because there were things going on with your kids and you know, I know you have other responsibilities in your life and I wanna be respectful of that, but I really noticed that those two times when you canceled, like part of me felt really abandoned and really hurt, and I, I'm, I'm starting to question if I'm still important to you. And I wanna check in about, you know, how much time you really have for our friendship right now, because I can handle shifts as long as I know that I still matter to you.
Haley: You're really, you're really putting it all out there. It, it gives the weight of why it's important to you. You're saying like, I'm feeling like this, not, you made me feel like this. Right. Well, those are the things I'm observing about your, the role play.
Marta: Yes. Yes.
Haley: Okay. I, I like that cuz it feels weighty enough that it's like, okay. Oh, I'm really. I feel like I have impacted you, and so going forward, I really need to make it. It's, it's, it's like forcing a decision, honestly, like ...
Marta: mm-hmm.
Haley: Am I going to make the time for you? Or maybe we really don't have the space right now.
Marta: Hmm. And that I just, you know, I need to, this is a me thing that I just need, I need to know what's going on. Just tell me what's going on. I can deal with a lot of things.
I can deal with a lot of change. But I do need to know what's going on. I have a high value around truth. For me that's centered in being an adoptee. But and so I just also need to know what's happening. But yes, I am assuming I'm not coming for their intent, right? I'm not assuming that they know I've been hurt or that that was intentional at all?
I'm just bringing the impact. Yes. What you just said, this impacted me. This thing that you did impacted me. And I want you to know, because I believe, right. I'm also trusting in that moment that you care how you've impacted me.
Haley: I would hope so. Otherwise, yeah. Friends off you like
Marta: Which goes to the question, right, of like, what if this is received poorly? Then I need that information. That's essential information because I need to be in relationships where I matter. So if you don't have space for that right now, for whatever reason, and that's not about my worth or my goodness, that's about whatever's going on with you. But if you don't have space to offer me that basic care of mattering in our relationship, then that's really important information for me because I can't stay in dynamics like that anymore. No mess.
Haley: Who's got time for that?
Marta: Not me.
Haley: Like Absolutely, absolutely agree. And I think we see it play over and over again about we let, I'm saying we, so many adopted people, let people walk all over us. We take the crumbs. We'll still say a secret cuz you don't wanna tell anybody and like, whatever.
Marta: Mm-hmm.
Haley: No more of that because it, it is impacting our self worth. Like, that's all we think we're worth is the leftovers.
Marta: Right?
Haley: No thank you.
Marta: Right.
Haley: Oh, that's good Marta. That's really good.
Marta: Right. Which which all we keep going, looping around right. To vulnerability, which starts with compassion for why all of this is hard for us and that it is not an indication that there's anything wrong with us. Only that we went through something horrific and it had an impact.
Haley: Mm-hmm, yes. Is there anything else about attachment, about attachment styles, about the nested model, polyamory, any of those things that you think is really important for us to know or act on today?
Marta: I almost said no, but yes. One more thing that I really want to say is that, you know, trauma brain leads us towards scarcity. So when we're talking about this fear of loss, that's also based in the idea that there's not enough. Which of course, right. Why would our brains not be wired for that after what we went through? But it's not true. Our society, if we were going back to the nested model around cultural beliefs around love and sex and pleasure and joy, again, we would find scarcity.
And so the idea that love is abundant and expansive is a core belief in the polyamorous community. And again, that has really impacted all of my relationships, right? I don't have to be scared if my best friend gets a new best friend because we can all have as many best friends as we want because love grows and builds on love.
And I don't have to be afraid about people in my life loving other people because that's just better for everybody.
Haley: That's good. That's a good one. Better for everyone because we can also be a little self-centered too, cuz we're just human. So. Yeah, I, I sometimes laugh at the conversations that we say are so adoptee focused when a lot of it is human problems as well.
Marta: Yes.
Haley: Plus we have trauma on top. So .
Marta: Yes.
Haley: Oh my gosh, Marta, this was so good. Thank you so much. Where can we connect with you online?
Marta: My email is marta sierra lm hc gmail.com.
Haley: Perfect. And you're taking clients. What's the deal? People wanna work with you.
Marta: I am currently most interested in working with polyamorous couples or people new to polyamory. I really have been enjoying that work, so,
Haley: okay. Excellent.
Marta: Say that's the most exciting thing that I'm working on.
Haley: Okay. And we are gonna link to your email in the show notes, so where people can connect with you and also some of the other podcast appearances you've been on, adoptees on, and some other spots. If people wanna learn more about you and more about this, Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.
Marta: You're welcome. Thanks, Haley it's always a pleasure.
(Upbeat music)
Haley: I feel so thankful to be a lifelong learner. I am always picking up new things. There is always something new and valuable that our community can learn about attachment or identity or trauma and all the things, the ways it affects us so we can work and move forward in the areas that we feel stuck. So I hope you love learning alongside of me.
I think the Healing Series episodes are so valuable and I really, really am thankful for all the therapists who are willing to share their knowledge with us. So thank you so much, Marta, and all the other healing episodes we've done, all the other guest therapists that we've had on, I'm so appreciative.
If you find the show valuable and you want it to continue to exist in this world, I would invite you to go to Adopteeson.com/community to find out more about supporting the show and all the bonuses you get for joining. Like another weekly podcast. And there's a level for a Facebook group and a book club and off-script parties where you can get to know new adoptees.
And I'm really, really. Pleased and proud of the community that we've built, so we'd love to have you join us, Adopteeson.com/community. Thank you so much for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
